Video: Trevor Loudon: America’s ‘Unfolding Socialist Revolution’ and Connections to China’s Communist Party

November 29, 2020 Updated: November 30, 2020

America is in the midst of an “unfolding socialist revolution,” argues anti-communist activist, researcher, and filmmaker Trevor Loudon. And a number of the individuals and groups involved in this effort have connections to the Chinese Communist Party.

This is American Thought Leaders 🇺🇸, and I’m Jan Jekielek.

Jan Jekielek: Trevor Loudon, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Trevor Loudon: It’s great to be here. Thanks very much, Jan.

Mr. Jekielek: So, Trevor, we’re looking at the 2020 US presidential election. There’s a growing number of voices that are out there that are basically calling former Vice President Biden, the President-elect. At the same time, we’re seeing a hearing in Pennsylvania, a very long hearing in Pennsylvania, with allegations of irregularities and voter fraud, two large lawsuits, and other lawsuits in play. But the two large ones I’m talking about are in Michigan and in Georgia, by Sidney Powell. So from the perspective of a near lifelong anti-communist activist, director, writer, what are your thoughts on what’s going on here?

Mr. Loudon: Well, the immediate thing I think of is this: the old principle that justice must not just be done, it must be seen to be done. You’ve got tens of millions of Americans right now who believe, rightly or wrongly, that the election was stolen. So if we’re going to have future peace in this country, [if] we’re going to have a unified country, those questions need to be satisfied. And that’s an urgent thing.

I think, if it means delaying the outcome of the election to make sure that those cases are settled in court to the satisfaction, to very high standards of satisfaction, that will give us a chance to go forward. If they’re not settled, I think you’ll see extremists peeling off, I think you’ll see a lot of people giving up on the political process entirely, and I think you’ll see a very different and much worse America. So that’s just on the legal side.

But the big context of this is, we are in, in my opinion, an unfolding socialist revolution to completely transform this republic. And this election, the outcome of it, will decide whether that revolution is successful or whether it is beaten back.

Mr. Jekielek: Okay, that’s a very big claim, obviously. Tell me more, tell me what you’re seeing.

Mr. Loudon: Well, what I’m seeing—I monitor the left, I monitor the communist groups, the radical groups, I read their papers, endlessly, day after day after day. I understand what they think and what their strategies involve.

This year, we have seen massive rioting on our streets, Black Lives Matter, etc. And still, most Americans do not understand that Black Lives Matter is a Marxist operation, with deep connections to the Communist Party of China. Most Americans see this as some social justice cause, but it’s had a major impact on America. And I believe it was timed to have a major impact on the elections.

We’ve also seen the same communist groups involved with Black Lives Matter—I’m talking Liberation Road, Communist Party USA and others—who most people don’t even know exist. But they have extensive networks in this country. They are the same people who are involved in several large voter registration organizations in many of the key states in question. I’m talking Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona.

I have them in their own words, talking about how they targeted these states to destroy Trump and to win the election for Biden. And these are communist groups. These are groups that owe their allegiance to communist China, and they are boasting about winning the election.

You know, if you’re a leader of the Communist Party of China, would you really want this guy, Trump, in the White House for four more years? After all he’s done to counter your plans? How the damage, the humiliation he has given the Communist Party of China on trade, the president who stood with the Hong Kong protesters against the Communist Party of China, the president who backed the anti-communist candidate in the Taiwanese presidential elections against China’s handpicked candidate. Would you really want Trump to succeed in this election? Or would you use your assets in the United States to try and tip the scales in favor of a much more friendly candidate, like Joe Biden?

Mr. Jekielek: Very good question. One thing that you mentioned is that there’s this allegiance, groups in the US that have allegiance to the Chinese Communist Party. Now that’s contentious. There’s a lot of people out there that are saying, “Hey, okay, they may be communist, but there’s no connection.” So what are the connections? How does this allegiance work?

Mr. Loudon: Look, so for many, many years, the Communist Party USA, for instance, owed its allegiance to the Soviet Union. And that’s been proven in so many court cases; it’s been proven in government documents, government hearings, over and over and over again. And of course, the communists would always deny it, but it was always found to be true.

While the Communist Party USA now, which is much more influential than most people realize, now openly owes its allegiance to China. They send delegations to China, they print pro-Chinese articles in their newspapers. I’ve got one article from 2010—this is a little while ago—talking about if the confrontation between America and China gets out of hand, they may have to fight for China on new terrain, meaning within the United States.

Liberation Road, the other main pro-Chinese communist group here—well, there’s two of them: Liberation Road and Freedom Road Socialist Organization. Liberation Road is the guiding force of Black Lives Matter. It’s a pro-Chinese communist group. They have some of their cadre living in China. It’s descended from the Maoist movement of the 1960s and 1970s. They openly propagandize for China in their publications. And they are the group behind Black Lives Matter.

They’re also the group that effectively runs the Chinese Progressive Association in San Francisco which, for 40 years now, has been communist China’s main ally on the west coast. It’s like a community organizing group; they register voters, they are involved in San Francisco politics. It’s very hard to get elected to anything in San Francisco without the blessing of the Chinese Progressive Association. And that has been run, was started by the League of Revolutionary Struggle, a pro-Chinese communist group which morphed into Freedom Road Socialist Organization, another pro-Chinese group, which is now called Liberation Road.

And so this Chinese Progressive Association has very deep ties to Black Lives Matter, and to a whole network of voter registration organizations in Arizona, in Pennsylvania, in Florida, in Michigan, in Wisconsin, in Georgia; all the key battleground states. And this front group openly boasts in their own publications, [that] they won six out of the seven states they targeted for Biden. This is their claim, not mine. So right under our noses, Chinese affiliated voter registration organizations are helping to flip American elections.

Mr. Jekielek: So is this in any way connected to these allegations, some of these sworn allegations? I’ve been looking, frankly, today through some of the exhibits associated with the lawsuits, and they’re stunning, in sworn testimony. Is this connected in any way?

Mr. Loudon: Well, I believe there will be overlaps, like one of the groups in this network, the Texas Organizing Project, which is based in Houston, but it’s very strong and Dallas and San Antonio as well. They used to be called Texas Acorn. They were the Acorn Group in Texas. And we all know the reputation that Acorn had for vote fraud, ballot harvesting, and various other sort of less than honest voting practices. So I think this is a multi-level thing.

What they did, they targeted what they call low-propensity voters. They sought out the black and Latino communities who leaned heavily Democrat, but voted in low numbers. And they put a lot of effort and a lot of money into mobilizing those people. So what this did was provide enough votes in these contested areas to give more cover for any vote fraud, or computer tampering, or anything else that had to be done.

And there’s another example in Virginia. Virginia was once a very deeply Republican state. Now it’s Democrat. Well, in Virginia, there’s a group called New Virginia Majority; it’s a front for Liberation Road, it’s a pro-Chinese communist operation. And they claim credit for turning Virginia. Over a 10 year period, they’ve signed up over 300,000 minority voters, and they worked with the governor of Virginia, then Terry McAuliffe, to legalize 200,000 felons, to give them the right to vote.

Now the reason they work so well, and they can micro-target their targeted people, is they’re using GIS mapping, which is very sophisticated computer mapping. These maps are produced by a Liberation Road comrade named Steve McClure. He’s a geography graduate from George Washington University. But for the last 10 years, he’s been working out of the geography department of Wu Han University, China.

He is using Chinese computers and Chinese space to generate maps which are being used to flip districts in Virginia. And by his own writings, he is part of a plan to flip not just Virginia, but a whole raft of southern states. I’m talking North Carolina; I’m talking Florida; I’m talking Georgia.

And this is their theory: they call the south the new Confederacy. And it’s a stronghold of conservative Christianity and the Republican Party. If they can flip not just Virginia, but also Florida and Georgia and Arizona—which they count on—the Republican Party will be destroyed as a national force.

So, you think about this. You’re a Chinese Communist Party leader, you don’t like Trump, you think he’s a danger to your continued existence. You are scared that he will do to you what Reagan did to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. So do you risk a multi-billion dollar trade war to take them out? Do you risk a multi-trillion dollar shooting war to take them out?

Or do you direct, or do you use your influence and the pro-communist Chinese networks in this country to create riots, to create instability, and then to actually work on the ground to mobilize those black and Latino voters who have been radicalized by the riots to get them to the polls, to flip certain states and certain districts in key areas that may defeat Trump? What would you do if you’re a communist Chinese leader?

Mr. Jekielek: I think you’re making a very compelling case, right? The thing that most people are concerned with, that I’ve certainly talked to, is these relationships aren’t often so direct. There’s no necessarily direct line of financial transfer money, this sort of thing. People are always asking, where is the proof? Where is the evidence?

Mr. Loudon: Look, the left has all the money it wants in this country. There are big foundations. Black Lives Matter is getting millions of dollars from corporations, which is then funneled, we know some of it’s funneled into Vote Blue, which is then funneled into the Democratic Party. So money isn’t so much of an issue for the left. The issue is really strategic.

And we do know, look, for instance, the Chinese Progressive Association has two main branches, one in Boston, one in San Francisco. They’re autonomous organizations. They both have their own board, their own financing. But they’re both run by the same pro-Chinese communist group, Liberation Road and it’s sort of sister group called Left Routes. So they’re both run by the same communist group.

The Boston branch works very openly with Chinese communist officials in New York. They actually do visa processing for them. They hold celebrations where they raise the Chinese flag in this downtown Boston. There is a long documented history of the Chinese Progressive Association acting with Chinese officials on the east coast.

On the west coast, I’ve got recordings of Pam Tau Lee, one of the founders of the CPA [Chinese Progressive Association] in San Francisco and still the chairman of their board—this is a 40 year veteran of the organization—and Alex Tom, who was the immediate past CEO, boasting of their open ties to the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco. Alex Tom talks about running his positioning, having many conversations with these people, running his positioning past the Chinese Consulate.

They are also very close to a man called Russell Lowe. Many of the Chinese Progressive Association figures work closely with Russell Lowe, a man who used to work for Senator Dianne Feinstein as an office manager and was identified by the San Francisco Chronicle and other organizations as a confirmed Chinese Communist Party spy, working for the Communist Chinese in San Francisco.

So the Chinese Progressive Association has a 40-year history of working with the Communist Party of China. Alex Tom has led delegations to China, he openly talks about his links there with Communist Party officials, with Chinese NGOs, and even underground organizations in China. So the documentation is very, very clear.

And Alex Tom is a long time friend of Alicia Garza, the founder of Black Lives Matter. They’ve known each other more than 20 years, from when they were student activists together at UC San Diego. The Chinese Progressive Association funds her group, the Black Futures project. Alex Tom worked with Black Lives Matter to get them connected to a range of radical Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian American Marxist organizations. The ties are very clear.

And Alex Tom is a key member of Seed the Vote, which is the organization running this network of voter registration organizations in key states. And it all comes back to people in very close relationships with the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco.

Mr. Jekielek: So Trevor, you talked earlier about us being in the midst of some kind of a revolution. And I think I said, that’s a big statement. It is a big statement. What are you seeing happening?

Mr. Loudon: Well, look, what is a revolution? A revolution is the overturning of the existing power structures. And I see that unfolding in America right now. I see a long term pattern of subversion that’s been going on now for 50 years. The radical left, the Communist Party USA, the Maoist groups, the Trotskyist groups, of which there are more than 30 in the United States right now. Anything from Democratic Socialists of America, to the Communist Party USA, Liberation Road, Party for Socialism and Liberation, Workers World Party, ad nauseum.

These people have never been so confident. I read their publications. They’re talking about a transformative change on the horizon. They’re talking about the Biden administration as being their path to a new America, that they’ve defeated the “fascist Trump,” and we’re now on the verge of a big progressive transformation.

See, what has happened in the last few years, which few Americans understand, is that there are no security checks in Congress or the Senate now. They’ve been gone. There was a time where if you wanted to serve as a staffer on the Homeland Security Committee or the Intelligence Committee, you would be pretty rigorously checked out. That’s pretty much a thing of the past.

And certainly the congressmen that serve on those organizations, there are no background checks at all. And many of these congressmen couldn’t pass a background check if they had to undergo one to drive a school bus.

So you’ve got a situation where the left has been resurgent. The left that we saw in the 60s and the 70s, the anti-Vietnam War era, they have grown up, they are now mature people running corporations. They’re running unions; they’re running media outlets; they are very heavily entrenched in the Democratic Party.

And they have trained, they are recruiting, a whole raft of new radicals coming out of the universities, people fired up by the Bernie Sanders movement, but even before that, the Occupy Wall Street movement. This is creating a critical mass in America now, where a very large proportion of the country supports a big transformative change. And that has reached the very top levels of the Democratic Party.

You know, Donald Trump Jr. said, about a year ago, he said the 2020 election will be communism versus freedom. And, of course, he got a lot of pushback for that, “How could he say that? That’s such an extreme statement,” but when you’ve had a massive destabilization in this year going on, people aren’t quite so sure now. You had the Chinese deliberately pushing the COVID panic in this country. We don’t know they deliberately released it, though some speculate that they did. But we do know that they deliberately spread it.

Tucker Carlson had a man on his show recently, Brian Dean Wright, a former CIA officer and a Democrat. And he said, “Tucker, the Democratic Party is following the Chinese line over COVID, meaning shut down, shut down, quarantine, shut down,” and he said, “Why?” And he said, “Well, I’ve got to believe that many of these people are useful idiots,” said Mr. Wright, “But many of them I have to believe are paid Chinese agents.”

So you’ve had a destabilization with the economy on the COVID, and that really damaged Trump’s chances, because the economy was his big deal that he was going to sail to re-election on. So you had that. We know it was spread by the Chinese. We know the panic has been encouraged by the Chinese. And the pro-Chinese Communist Party [organizations] here definitely promoted that propaganda line in their publications.

They used their unions to shut down businesses that were trying to reopen. They used unions to stop teachers going back to work, for instance. The longer they could keep it shut down, the weaker the economy got, the worst Trump’s chances were.

So then we had the riots. Well, they were triggered by the Freedom Road Socialist Organization, based out of Milwaukee. I have them on tape, taking credit for starting those rights, the same people that burned Kenosha, the same people that started riots in Tampa, Tallahassee, in Houston, in Dallas, in Salt Lake City, Utah, the Bay Area, etc. And they were joined by Liberation Road, the pro-Chinese communist group behind Black Lives Matter, which organized riots elsewhere.

So you had these two big destabilization exercises, both connected to China. All of these combined to elect a man, Joe Biden, whose family has some very problematic ties to China, who the Chinese press has openly said they would rather deal with than Trump.

And his vice president, Kamala Harris, whose whole background, right back to her parents, right to her husband’s company that does a lot of business with Communist China. But Kamala Harris has a very Maoist background. She is involved with people connected to STORM—Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement—a Maoist communist group, made famous by Van Jones.

Her parents were involved in a group called the Afro American Association, which was a communist group in Berkeley in the 60s that spawned the Black Panther Party, which is effectively the model for today’s Black Lives Matter.

And her main protege, her main financial benefactor, a man called Steven Phillips, a former pro-Chinese communist from Stanford University who became a lawyer in the Bay Area and married into a very big family, the Sandler fortune from San Francisco, and has used his influence and money to fund some of the same Maoist communist groups that have been doing the voter registration in key states this year.

So if you look at Joe Biden’s background, you look at Kamala Harris, you could understand why the Chinese Communist Party would want them in the White House, rather than Donald Trump and Mike Pence.

Mr. Jekielek: So Joe Biden has been running as a moderate. What you’re describing is quite different than that. And in fact, a lot of China watchers are hoping—I’ve heard this view expressed repeatedly—that he’s very likely to maintain the Trump line on Communist China, because it’s been moved that far along and the world’s eyes have been open to the Chinese Communist threat. What are your thoughts?

Mr. Loudon: Well, I would hope he would. But there’s nothing in his background to indicate that that would be the case. Look, if you go back into the 70’s and 80’s, when he was serving in the Senate, Joe Biden was regarded as a leftist on foreign policy. He might have been relatively moderate on domestic policy. It was basically him, John Kerry, and Ted Kennedy, that were working together to oppose Reagan, when Reagan was trying to stop communism in Latin America.

Joe Biden was very friendly to the Soviet Union. He was very much a dove when it came to confronting the Soviet Union. Joe Biden even worked for many years, 40 years with a group called the “Council for a Livable World.” That was a pack set up by a Hungarian named Leo Szilard, who was an atomic bomb scientist. He was a member of the Manhattan Project during World War Two, and he set up that pack. And by the way, he had a communist background from Hungary as a young man.

He set up that pack to recruit senators in small states, who could then be influenced to work against American nuclear armaments, to cut weapon systems, to negotiate weak treaties with the Soviet Union, basically to increase the Soviet Union’s advantage over America militarily. And Joe Biden was one of the earliest recruits of that pack.

At the 50th anniversary in 2012, I have him on tape saying, look, the council was with me when I started. You’ve been with me all the way. You helped. You guided me when I was chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. You helped Obama and me negotiate the START treaty with Russia—the treaty that was so advantageous to Putin, and so disadvantageous to America that Trump had to unilaterally cancel it. Joe Biden has a very deep history of working to weaken America to the advantage of the Soviet Union, Russia, Iran and China. This is his record.

But people seem to think he’s a moderate for some reason. In his own words, he calls himself the most progressive candidate to ever run for president. Now, what does that mean? That’s what he says when he’s with Democratic audiences. That’s not what he says, when he’s talking to the American public.

Look, this is my view, and it’s probably maybe at odds with some, but I think if Joe Biden wins, we will take a mega leap into socialism. I think that Kamala Harris is a deeply socialist person. And I believe you’ve got about 100 people in the US Congress, and about 20 people in the US Senate, who are so enmeshed in radical organizations, Communist Party USA, Democratic Socialists of America, etc. Or relationships with Cubans, Iranians, etc. They couldn’t pass a background check to drive a school bus. So I think we will see our very strong leap into socialism.

I will think we’ll see a very strong move to gut the US military. The Green New Deal is really designed to gut the US military. Biden has made it very clear that he’s going to move against the military. The COVID epidemic, and the effect that’s had on the economy will provide the excuse for that. Already 31 democrats led by Barbara Lee, a radical leftist, have written a letter to the Armed Services Committee demanding big budget cuts in the next budget go around; big defense budget cuts, in the next budget go around. … That’s on our front. We’re going to see a big move to socialism.

But what about the international front? How do you think the Indians are feeling right now if Biden wins? You know they had a champion, a friend in President Trump. President Trump was trying to build an alliance around Asia to counter the influence of the Chinese Communist Party.

India’s been threatened by China. If they don’t have that ally Trump, they have someone in Joe Biden, whose family has extensive business ties to China, how confident are they going to feel? How secure [are] the Japanese going to feel? And the Indonesians and the Australians and the South Koreans?

How are they going to feel when China is throwing its weight around, and they don’t have a friend in the White House? They have someone in the White House that is more friendly to China than he is to them. This is going to alter the whole world balance of power. This selection will alter things on the world scale that we can’t even dream of.

A lot of these countries are going to be thinking, “Well, America was our friend. We can’t really trust Joe Biden to stand up for our interests. Are we going to make peace with the Communist Party of China? Are we going to throw in with them? Or are we going to try to strike an independent course?” What’s Japan going to do? Is it going to try and go with China? Or is it going to build itself 200 nuclear weapons? And if it does that, everybody else in the Pacific, how are they gonna feel about that?

So I think there’s a whole level of instability worldwide, that will eventuate from a Biden presidency, that wouldn’t happen in a Trump presidency. I think, if President Trump is reelected, he will continue to build this anti-Communist Party of China alliance, I think he will continue to do things like he’s just done, when he’s listed well over 100 Chinese companies connected to the People’s Liberation Army, and the Communist Party of China, that Americans can no longer invest with. He is doing real things to isolate the Communist Party of China—really firm things.

Biden will reverse that. That will upset our allies all over the world. That will change the balance of power. But if Trump is reelected, and he continues to isolate the Communist Party of China—which is really only 800 families; it’s like a mafia running the whole country—I believe if Trump can continue to build this alliance, he will actually get to the point where the Chinese people will take down the Communist Party of China themselves.

And you imagine the world, you imagine the world with a free China. Where all that energy and all that enterprise and all that culture is harnessed for good rather than evil. What a boon that will be for the world? Well, I can guarantee you that, that will not happen under Joe Biden. It might happen under Donald Trump, but it certainly will not happen under Joe Biden.

Mr. Jekielek: So where do you think things stand right now?

Mr. Loudon: Well, I see we’re standing on the cusp. I see that it is imperative for any future stability in this country that Donald Trump perseveres. And his team takes every one of these cases to the courts, and they’re decided in full view of the American public. So we know one way or another who actually won the election. We cannot have [a] united country unless that is settled.

So those who call on Trump to concede and back down, that’s just disastrous. Remember back in the 60s, they talked about how there’s very problematic election between John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon in 1960. And those big accusations of voter fraud in Cook County, Illinois, the mafia being involved and all this. And those are very credible allegations. Nixon wanted to challenge it because it was a super close election, while the Republican Party said no, for the good of the country, just surrender. Let Kennedy have it. You’ll have a turn later.

Well, that cowardly decision led us to the point where for the last 40 years, we’ve had continual accusations of democratic vote fraud. It’s been every election we’ve been talking about vote fraud. And now we’ve got to the point, we have probably nearly a third of the country believe this election was stolen. That’s not a healthy situation. So we’ve got to correct the mistake that was made in the 60s.

This has got to be settled out in the open for everybody to see. If Joe Biden wins, Joe Biden wins. But if President Trump is the rightful winner, it doesn’t matter what ABC says or CNN says he should be the one on inauguration day in January. It’s got to be a matter of the law.

If we don’t follow the law here, nobody will trust the American elections going forward. And that will lead to extremism, could be violence. It will lead to people dropping out of the system. And the healthy American democracy that we have seen will be a thing of the past. This has to be settled.

Mr. Jekielek: And you’ve described basically what’s been happening as an attack on the American idea.

Mr. Loudon: Yes.

Mr. Jekielek: And I want to give you a chance to expand on this a little bit.

Mr. Loudon: Well, the American idea is based very much on the rule of law is it not? What made America different? In Europe, it was the divine right of kings. You had parliaments, but the king would, in most countries, could overrule the parliament and basically run the country, invoking God’s Will. You know that … God always tended to agree with the king. What the king said was pretty much what God wanted. America was founded on the idea that your rights come from God, and the only reason for government was to protect those rights with a rule of law, not of men.

Well, right now you have CNN, and networks trying to call the election for the American public to override the law—to override the judicial process. We may think, “Well, we all know Trump lost and he’s just hanging on. Let’s just forget about the technicalities and go through.” When you start forgetting about the law and the rule of law, you’re opening the country up to complete despotism. You’re opening the country up to a rule by media, the rule by oligarch.

You’re throwing the rule of law out the window. And that will have massive downstream effects that we’ll never recover from. So we have got to follow this process through. I believe America is [at] the point where, if this election is not properly looked at, if it is not settled to the satisfaction of the majority of the American people, we’re heading for a very chaotic time. And we are giving power to the left to complete what I have said, is an ongoing socialist revolution.

What we’re experiencing in America right now is very similar to how the Soviets took over Czechoslovakia in 1948. You know, most of the countries in Eastern Europe, they just rolled in the tanks and set up their own government. But in Czechoslovakia, which had a very strong democratic tradition, it was done by election. They had elections, there were allegations of vote fraud, but they got a few communists into the government.

Those communists were given key positions in the security and the justice portfolios. They used those positions to go after their enemies, like Obama did with the IRS, for instance. You know, like what we’ve seen in the Russiagate scandal; the security organs were weaponized against people the government didn’t like or in the case, the previous government didn’t like to the point where all opposition was eventually squashed.

And after about three years, the communists had so much power in Czechoslovakia, they basically declared a de facto government, and they were the power from that point onwards, and they had a one-party state until communism collapsed in the 1980s.

So we’re at that point now where the opposition, where conservatives are being persecuted, conservatives are being attacked, Republicans are being attacked and called fascists. They’re being demonized and marginalized. We’ve had proof that the state was weaponized against enemies of the left. We have Antifa and Black Lives Matter running loose on the streets.

We have massive big tech manipulation of our media, shutting out points of view they don’t like. This is revolution. This is tyranny brewing. And if this election is not settled, there’ll be no further opposition to this big agenda. And there will be no possibility to unite people to stage a comeback, because we won’t have Facebook. We won’t have Twitter. We’ll be targeted by the IRS or the Justice Department or the FBI. And we will see a one-party state effectively set up in this country.

Now I know that a lot of conservatives think that’s a little bit far fetched or a little bit hyperbole. If I’d said that two years ago, they would have laughed at me. But if you’re saying that now at least people think, “There may be some truth in this.”

I want people to think of one fact. Hillary Clinton promised that if she was elected in 2016, she was going to legalize every single illegal immigrant in the country and give them citizenship and voting rights. Now, those days, we used to think that was about 11 million people. Now, according to Massachusetts Institute of Technology, it’s 22 million people.

And we know that if those people are given citizenship and voting rights as Joe Biden has promised to do, that will be another 15,16 [or] 17 million voters for the Democratic Party. Texas will go blue. Florida will go blue. Georgia will go blue. Carolina, North Carolina will go blue. Arizona will go irrevocably blue. There will never be any opposition to the one-party state, Democratic Party.

The Republican Party might survive in Wyoming, South Carolina, and Tennessee for a while, but it’ll never again be a national force. And I don’t think even if you’re a Democrat, even if you’re a green, whatever. Who wants a one-party state in this country? Even if it’s your party. But that’s what we’re on the verge of having. What we’re seeing now is the confluence of big tech, the radical left, and the Democratic Party, and certain elements of business. And it looks very much like the Chinese Communist Party model—which should not surprise us.

Mr. Jekielek: When you describe, you want to see the election settled. I’m just not fully clear. Are you saying you want to see Trump win? Are you saying you want to see the law play out?

Mr. Loudon: Look, I’m partisan, I make no bones. I think Trump has a much better vision for America than Biden. But I would rather see, my primary concern is to have it settled one way or another. The law has got to be followed. I would put it this way. I would rather Biden win in an honest election than Trump win an election that’s in doubt. Okay. I want Trump to win, no question. I’ll be honest about that.

But, it’s got to be settled. And it’s got to go through the process. And it’s got to be transparent, so there can be no arguments. We need to reunify this country. It hasn’t been as divided since the Civil War. That is not going to happen when a third of the country on either side think they’ve been cheated.

If Trump wins, and the process hasn’t been followed, the Democrats will feel cheated. If Trump loses or Biden wins and the process has not been followed, the whole Trump base will feel cheated. You try and reunify a country under those circumstances. People will accept an honest result. They may not like it, but they will accept it. And then you can have some chance of reconciliation and healing.

So I say to everybody who supports this process, we have to go through the procedure. We have to have a clear result here, whatever it takes. Because whatever we paid to do this, it’s going to be cheaper than not doing it. It’s going to be cheaper in the long run than just trying to gloss this over.

Mr. Jekielek: I think people on both sides are concerned whatever the result is, even if the process is followed extensively, that the results will not be accepted.

Mr. Loudon: Look, if Trump wins, the left, much of the left certainly will not accept the results. But I think even most Democrats now are a bit embarrassed about this. They understand, yes it almost certainly there was cheating involved. And they know, look at all the Bernie Sanders supporters out there right now. They understand that maybe Hillary Clinton cheated them to stop Bernie. Maybe Joe Biden cheated them to stop Bernie. They’re angry. They’re upset.

You know, so yes, if Trump wins, a lot of the left will not accept it. If Biden wins, the whole Trump base will not accept it. But the radical left—most Democrats [are] moderates, they will move on. They might not like it, but they will accept the result. The radical left will riot; they will do stuff.

But you know, we can’t be blackmailed by that. We’ve just got to say, if you’re going to break the law, if you’re going to get out there and burn things down, if you’re going to riot because you don’t like a legal decision, you do not deserve to be walking around the streets free. And you will be prosecuted and subject to the full penalties of the law if you do that.

You know, in 1968, we had very violent protests in America over the Vietnam War. And what stopped the violence—and didn’t stop the protest, which was legitimate but it did stop the violent aspect of it— was when seven leaders, the so-called Chicago Seven, were put on trial for starting the big riots in Chicago. They were prosecuted under the statute that’s illegal to cross state lines to start a riot, and five of them got five-year jail terms. I think they were overturned on appeal later, but that stopped the violence. The violence stopped. The protests continued because people thought they had a legitimate cause. But the violent aspect of it stopped.

Well, if Trump prevails in this, Trump will have to apply the law. And people will end up going to jail if they commit violence. And I say, that’s the way it is. If you want to burn things down and assault police and throw Molotov cocktails, you will have to suffer the penalty for that. And I don’t think it’s going to take many people suffering that penalty for the whole thing to dampen down.

If Joe Biden wins, Black Lives Matter will be the police force. Black Lives Matter is already telling Joe Biden, who he can put in his cabinet and who he can’t—they have that much leverage. You know, you’ve got a big vote for Trump this time, because a whole bunch of people were frustrated at these democratic states who let people burn things down, assault the cops and riot and did nothing about it. Well, that is not a healthy situation.

You want to restore equilibrium to this country, you’ve got to make it very clear that if you want to break the law and commit violence, you will pay a penalty. And when that is reestablished and people have faith in the system, then we can start to move on.

Mr. Jekielek: Trevor Loudon, such a pleasure to have you on.

Mr. Loudon: Thank you very much, Jan. It’s been a pleasure talking

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

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