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Devin Nunes: Congress Must Investigate DOJ, FBI, and Beyond in November | Kash’s Corner

On this special episode of Kash’s Corner, Kash Patel sits down with his old boss, former Congressman Devin Nunes, now CEO of Trump Media & Technology Group, to reflect on their time in Washington and what it was like trying to expose egregious misconduct in the Department of Justice, FBI, and beyond.

“This was something that we never knew could exist—that you could somehow get a contractor that could become politicized to go out and use the powers of the state to essentially spy on your political opponents … That’s what happened,” says Nunes.

They discuss lessons from the Michael Sussmann trial, what’s coming next in the Igor Danchenko trial, and how Nunes sees the Department of Justice and other agencies being held accountable if the gavel changes hands.

“There’s going to have to be an investigation like none that’s ever been done before, directly at the Department of Justice and everything below,” argues Nunes.

Disclaimer: Kash Patel is a board member of Trump Media & Technology Group, the company that owns Truth Social

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Kash Patel:

Hey, everybody and welcome to the Kash’s Corner for the first time ever from Truth Social headquarters with my dear friend and former boss, Devin Nunes as the current CEO of TMTG [Trump Media & Technology Group]. We are excited to have him. We’re excited to be in Sarasota, Florida. Thanks to the team for having us and we’re going to have a great episode. So Devin, welcome to Kash’s corner.

Devin Nunes:

Hey, welcome. Welcome here to Truth Social headquarters, man. It’s great to have you here.

Mr. Patel:

Thanks so much for having us. I would say, I think I want to lead off with, did you ever think when you met me six years ago, this is where we would be doing a Kash’s Corner episode?

Mr. Nunes:

No.

Mr. Patel:

I thought you would be doing all the media.

Mr. Nunes:

No. Well, look, I never even thought… All those times back when we brought you on to work on the Russiagate and the Russia hoax, no one ever thought… I think even when you came on board at that time, no one thought that the government was that bad, the Department of Justice was that corrupt and that it would basically upend the entire country into what is now a fake scandal. But I think we’re still in that dark chapter of American history. And that’s kind of what has resulted in you and I landing here today is that I left Congress because I realized that our communications were down.

There was no way to communicate even with one another. So that’s what brings us here. And Sarasota is the free speech capital of the world now. It’s got Truth and Rumble.

Mr. Patel:

It seems like it. We’ve done a lot of interviews together. We’ve had a lot of fun over the years, but this is kind of the first like for me, from my perspective to do this with you. So I think it’s pretty cool and I think our audience would love to hear, how did you first come onto Russiagate and figure out, “We got to get this investigation? We have to go big”? I’ve never really actually asked you that. People always ask me, “How did you guys meet?” And we tell them the story. It’s literally by chance through mutual friends. But how did you know back then we had to go big on what we now call Russiagate?

Mr. Nunes:

Well, it was actually pretty simple because all through ’14 and ’15 and 16, I watched how poorly the Obama administration, and Obama-Biden administration was dealing with Putin. If you recall, during that time, there was one fiasco after another, whether it was the little green men going into Crimea, they shot down an airliner in Ukraine. Remember all that? And Obama and Biden refused to deal with Putin. They continually backed down to him. They were always trying to cut deals with him, all these side deals. They played games in Ukraine back in 2014 in the election. The Obama administration did. None of that made any sense. And it finally led to me coming out in, ironically, in the spring of 2016 saying that this was the biggest intelligence failure since 9/11/2001 was our inability to understand Putin’s plans and intentions.

As you can imagine, as Chairman of the Intelligence Committee, that’s a pretty big statement at the time, right? And here, now you look back, think of that time period. Spring of ’16, I publicly go out and say, “This is the biggest intelligence failure since 9/11.” And meanwhile, secretly, DOJ, Obama, Biden, the Clinton campaign, they’re all conspiring to smear not just Trump, but the entire Republican Party that somehow the Republican Party is Russian assets [and] Putin sympathizers when the opposite was true. So that time period is important.

Mr. Patel:

One of the things I said to you when you first asked me to come join your team, and it was the only thing I really cared about was accountability. I said, “Look, I don’t know Donald Trump. I hadn’t met him. I hadn’t talked to him at the time.” But I said, “Whatever we find, we put out there. We put it out for the American people to read.” And you were like, “Absolutely. That’s the goal of this investigation.” And one of the defining documents that I think not only has stood this test of time, but is going to be the way people look at how you publicize information is the Nunes memo.

I kind of call it the Kash memo, but we can quibble over that later. But what made you come up with this idea to be like, “We’ve got all this complex stuff. We’ve got FISA warrants. We’ve got underlying documents. We’ve got DOJ memorandums. We’ve got IC cables. All of it is classified.” I don’t think the people know the lift that it took from you as chairman to, A, put that together and then B, actually get it declassified and out there. So I think it would be fun to talk about that.

Mr. Nunes:

So you have to remember that we knew a lot of that information for almost a full year, or at least for eight or nine months. And we had to sit on that and sit on it and sit on it. Because if you recall, the Department of Justice going back to the corruption that was there at that level, and all the intelligence agencies, they were hiding this, they were burying it because they knew that they had done serious damage. It was no question corrupt and they were hiding the corruption. They always played this game of, they knew that we couldn’t say anything. Right? They were just waiting for me or Trey Gowdy or somebody to go say something wrong. They were looking at every single interview. And so waiting to-

Mr. Patel:

So they can prosecute you.

Mr. Nunes:

… prosecute us so they could shut the investigation down. So the only way we had to use what was in the house rules, right, we had to have the parliamentarians look at it. We had to use the full power of the legislative branch to say, “It’s over for you, guys. We’re taking the power. We’re putting this out”. Remember, you had Rosenstein, and Ray came New Years to talk to-

Mr. Patel:

Threatened to investigate us.

Mr. Nunes:

… Paul Ryan. They threatened to investigate us. I mean, these guys were covering this up. And they did not want this out. I think the other funny story about the so-called Nunes memo, if you recall, it was actually much longer. There was a lot more information that we wanted to put out there, but we really just narrowed it down. Narrowed it down because at that time we were still taking the Department of Justice seriously, that they were real and that they weren’t corrupt and they were doing things by the book and they really had concerns about some of this information getting down.

That thing was basically cut down probably by two thirds of what really should have been put out there. And if you recall, it was actually… I like to call it… It was really the Gowdy memo.

Mr. Patel:

Now, you’re taking it away from me and giving it to Trey. I can’t have that.

Mr. Nunes:

It was the Kash and Gowdy memo. But the fake news quickly wanted to get out there because they had just been… At that point, I had been just attacked, slandered and defamed day after day after day. It was really cute for the fake news and the left and the country. Let’s just call it the Nunes memo. Right? It should have been the house intelligence memo. It should have been something. And then we’ll just smear, continue to smear Nunes. We’ll say it’s Russian disinformation. We’ll say it’s corrupt. We’ll say it’s leaking information. That story really has not been told very well. A few people have. But remember, the Democrats put out a memo. They then jumped to basically put out disinformation. I mean, it was Russian disinformation that-

Mr. Patel:

That they put out. The fake memo.

Mr. Nunes:

That they put out. That story still has not been told, but if you look at the Nunes memo, not only did we get it entirely right. In fact, it was a lot worse than what we even thought at the time that we put that memo out.

Mr. Patel:

Yes. On the Schiff memo, I want to get back to that because there were some pretty savvy, not just political maneuvering and using the levers in Congress that had literally never been used to put this document out. But we’ve never really talked about it, but you talked about pairing down the document because you can’t send out a 20-page document. We had to keep it to five because that’s what people can read. But you astutely devised the manner in which you were like, “Well, as soon as we put this out, you predicted, the Dems and Schiff are going to want to put their own out, Schiff. And unlike the Dems, the Republicans were the ones who voted the Schiff memo out.

And I think strategically it paid off for us because we almost goaded him into writing that because we knew the fake news mafia would cover immediately as the truth. But over time nothing in the Schiff memo is true, but he put out a lot of the information we wanted out. Mainly that information that the FBI knew before the FISA court that the money came from the Clinton campaign and they hid it from the FISA court. So things like that I think were pretty clever that over the-

Mr. Nunes:

I would just argue that it was just a long road. Right?

Mr. Patel:

Yeah.

Mr. Nunes:

And here we sit still today, that I bet if you did a poll probably close to half of Americans still believe that Trump and Republicans had something to do with Russia. Look, we did the right thing for the right reasons. I actually think we should have put a lot more out there. I think at the time looking back, I still had beliefs in the Department of Justice, and the people that worked there and the intelligence agencies. There’s no way now looking back at that time period that the leadership within those agencies knew what we were putting out was real. And it should have been a problem.

That should have been taken immediately by the top people at justice and investigated. But what did they do? They said, “No, it’s fake.” Oh, it’s going to ruin national security. We’re going to turn it over to the Inspector General. And he did a good job with it. I mean, the Inspector General did do a good job, but it took years. I mean, it just took forever. It was wrong. It should have been an immediate investigation from the top down, from all of the people at the Department of Justice and the FBI that were involved in this. It just didn’t happen.

Here we are five years later trying to play catch up because of the high level of corruption that occurred back in that time period. So that’s why I say we should have actually… In retrospect, we should have put it all out there, everything we had. And we could have done it in, “Hey, here’s what we know for sure and here’s what we don’t know, but these are facts that people need to go out and investigate.” Because none of that was to protect national security. It was all just a cover up.

Mr. Patel:

Right. One of the things I want to just highlight for audiences though, the big epitaph that we got thrown at us was, yes, you’re going to harm national security, but you’re going to kill our sources. You’re going to destroy our relationships with the United Kingdom if you put this memo out. I mean, I remember taking it to the White House and everybody talking about it and saying, “Oh my God, you’re going to…” The attorney general or Rod Rosenstein at the time was saying, “You’re going to ruin the DOJ.”

But I want to foot stomp for our audience, we did it. We teamed up and did it in such a way that no one died, no relationship was ruined. And congressional oversight was validated by showing the American people the accountability that was necessary. That memo led to the firing or retirement of 17 individuals at DOJ and FBI for a congressional move that’s pretty solid.

Mr. Nunes:

It probably should have been about 170.

Mr. Patel:

I know.

Mr. Nunes:

Because there’s a lot more that knew what was going on there. Maybe some of those now are cooperating with Grassley. You see some whistleblowers that are coming forward. And think of the absurdity now that we were somehow going to harm national security. It was absurd because the only people they were protecting was a washed up, useless Brit guy that was on the take—was being paid.

Mr. Patel:

Yes.

Mr. Nunes:

Right? Not only was he being paid by the Clinton campaign, ultimately through a law firm. Remember all of that? He was also being paid by our own FBI.

Mr. Patel:

That’s right.

Mr. Nunes:

And then the other guy that they were protecting, this so-called Russian source, was a dude that, yes, he was born in Russia, but he was living across the Potomac. He’s now being prosecuted by Durham. And he was just making stuff up that the Clinton team wanted him to put down.

So he was their Russian source. And this was like, Putin’s easiest play that he ever made. He had to do absolutely nothing because Fusion GPS and Steele just made it all up and fed it into the system. Think of all the idiots in the news media. It just shows you through all of this at the end of the day through the whole Trump presidency, through the Russia hoax, if it’s done any good, it’s been that it’s ripped the bandaid off of what was percolating there for a long, long time of the rotting of the inside of the justice department and our intelligence agencies.

Mr. Patel:

I was fortunate to be in a lot of those meetings with you, those high level meetings. And the one thing that I learned in my government tenure was once you expose government corruption, do you force the conversation and the documentation to say, “We didn’t write this. These are your documents. You said these documents didn’t exist. And then you issued 17 congressional subpoenas, which hadn’t been done in the history of Congress and then we found their own documentation. That’s the best way to, A, educate the American public and prove the truth. And that was the power of righteous congressional message.

Mr. Nunes:

And if you go back to that time, not only that though, think of all of those high level personnel, even hid those. They hid those from the public. They hid them from us, and they always claim the same thing. “Oh, we can’t show you this. It’s going to endanger national security.” And every single time we found all they were doing was covering up. It was really damaging evidence of their own people doing really bad things and abusing the system and cooperating with the Democratic Party.

Mr. Patel:

Do you think that the American people have all the information that we can learn from our investigation in Russiagate? And if not, how much of it is missing and what can we do to get it?

Mr. Nunes:

I think a lot of it’s going to depend on Durham. It’s going to be interesting to see if there seems like there should be additional indictments. It seems like there’s a lot more there. You have the trial of Danchenko. That Epoch Times has done a great job, and you’ve done a great job of outlining that. I just saw this week that Durham is actually going to be the lead prosecutor.

Mr. Patel:

I saw that. That is incredibly unusual. Me as a former federal prosecutor to get like… That’s like the AG trying a case. So I guess he’s going big.

Mr. Nunes:

Yes When you look at what happened with the Sussman debacle in Washington, DC, and I really believe you look back at that. I think Durham had to believe that no way Sussman was going to risk going to jail for five years, but he did. Sussman was either worried about disappearing like a lot of the people that crossways with the Clintons. Right? Because it would’ve been really easy. I think he was just trying to get him to plea, is my opinion. They thought, “Okay, we’re going to charge Sussman. He’s going to cooperate. He’s going to plea. He’s not going to risk going to jail.” He should’ve been a cooperative witness because really he’s at the focal point of everything. Right?

Mr. Patel:

Yes.

Mr. Nunes:

He knows everything that happened. Everything had to have moved through that law firm and where he was the number one guy there, or the number two guy, but he was basically handling that. That and just another dark part of U.S. history, that’s all tied in going back to 2016, when this all started, where you have a city like that—95 percent Democrat. How are you going to have with this political world, I mean, it becomes… If you’re a Republican, you’re going to get everything thrown at you in Washington, DC. It’s going to be a short prosecution. Jury is going to deliver it for 10 minutes and you’re going to get the maximum sentence.

Mr. Patel:

Two-tier system.

Mr. Nunes:

Yes. It’s completely two-tiered and it’s wrong. As you know, the evidence they had on Sussman was crystal clear. So we’ve got big problems, here is the main thing. So hopefully Durham is going to do better in Virginia because the jury at least will be 50-50.

Mr. Patel:

We got to give you credit for leading that investigation. As you said, I thought too… Basically in my opinion Jan and I went and watched the Durham prosecution of Sussman. The jury basically had the videotape of the bank robbery with the guy’s face on it. Because as you remember, you authorized 60 some depositions under oath. We took the Michael Sussman deposition where he literally said under oath, after taking his oath during that deposition transcript that, “I was there on behalf of a client.” That’s the critical statement. And then he goes to the FBI the next whenever, he went there and says, “I’m not coming to you on behalf of anybody.” And that’s the lie that the jury was shown.

But I think what Sussman relied on I agree he should have been a cooperating witness, but he banked on the fact that the case was brought in Washington. You call that out pretty early. Why do you think-

Mr. Nunes:

And I also think there’s an important point too. You’ve been a lawyer on both sides, both a prosecutor and a defender. I’m not a lawyer, but if a client came to you or came to me for legal advice here and you saw all the evidence that Durham had against Sussman, I would give any other American, I’d say, “Look, you better work out a deal here. There’s not much you can do other than cop a plea and maybe apologize and get a slap on the wrist.” I mean, that’s what advice that I would give somebody that had that type of evidence against them.

Mr. Patel:

I think Durham knew that that was a possibility, but I think what was beneficial even though there was an acquittal, was the amount of information he got out there to the American public. To all the Clinton campaign cronies, to the Jake Sullivan’s of the world, the Podesta’s, the Mook’s, the Fusion GPS’s, they were all thrown into his joint venture conspiracy as he called it. So moving on to the Danchenko case, which I think is going to get tried in October. As you said, John Durham is going to be the lawyer, or at least one of them. What do you expect the world to learn from the Danchenko prosecution?

Mr. Nunes:

The one thing that we never found in our investigation was this involvement of this character Joffe and all of that operation. We didn’t know that existed. Clearly we knew there were ops being run at very high levels against Trump, but little did we know that they had continued that into the Trump administration, into the White House? I mean, this is a very serious charge. The fact that you’ve got these folks with high level, high security clearances getting government contracts, this is something that we never knew could even exist at least at our level on the intelligence committee that you could somehow get a contractor that could become politicized to go out and use the powers of the state to essentially spy on your political opponents.

That’s what happened. So I’m eager to learn what we find out there. I’m surprised that Joffe hasn’t been indicted yet. For me, that’s interesting. The rest of it, we all know, right? I mean, and basically the Clintons have admitted it, right? I mean, they had to pay a fine to the Federal Elections Commission. I mean, there was obviously misuse of funds there. Everybody knows, well, not everybody, but people that are watching this video most likely know the whole story, the major pieces to the Russia hoax story, except for that piece on Joffe.

Mr. Patel:

So I think America has sort of learned the value of when you were chairman and you ran the oversight investigation on Russiagate, there is a definitive role for congressional oversight and it’s based in the Constitution. And you did it, even though the charge was he was doing politically, you just did it wherever the facts led, which was the best way to run an investigation. Fast forward now, you have the Unselect Committee on January 6th, doing it as politically as you possibly can.

Now in November, if the elections go the way everybody says they’re going to go, give the audience some insight on you’re not in Congress anymore, but what investigations would you want Congress like judiciary and intel to focus on?

Mr. Nunes:

I think simply put, this is so bad and the institutions are rotting from the inside. So if you look at the most important issue at the highest level, in terms of government corruption, it’s got to be the Department of Justice.

Mr. Patel:

How do you go after that?

Mr. Nunes:

There’s going to have to be an investigation like none that’s ever been done before, directly at the Department of Justice and everything below. Right? So dating back to what happened during, as far back as even Benghazi, right? But for sure, the Russia hoax, their involvement in that, the Ukraine impeachment hoax, to January 6th, to whatever the hell happened up in Michigan with all of these, people supposedly working for the federal government as agents of the federal government running around—this is absolute madness. It’s gotten out of control.

So there’s going to have to be a real investigation like it’s never been done and it’s going to have to be Department of Justice. And from there, all the tentacles go down to everybody else.

Mr. Patel:

So putting your chairman hat back on, right? Whoever is the chairman of judiciary or OGR, or intel going forward after the gavel switch, how would you advise them to do that? Because you know how to do that. And a lot of the folks in Congress, unfortunately, don’t have that background, don’t have that experience.

Mr. Nunes:

I think it’s going to have to be a special committee that’s put together and how they comprise that. I don’t know with a full staff. As you know, I mean, think about our little team on-

Mr. Patel:

Eight people?

Mr. Nunes:

… intel. There were very few people that ran that whole investigation and I can tell you, and that was with the help of people like Chuck Grassley and Ron Johnson and people who did a lot of work to help us get to the truth of Russiagate. This is much bigger than that because this is like… This actually involves Russiagate too, right? Because everything that has to be looked at from the Department of Justice all the way down runs the gamut from Russiagate to Jan 6, to everything else that we don’t have answers for.

Plus the cooperation, how their cooperating with the Democrats and the media, and Mohler, right? I mean, Mohler needs to be investigated. So I think you start with DOJ and you have to look at everything. It’s got to be a big staff and it’s got to be people that are serious about reigning in the Department of Justice, which I hate to say that, but we were just talking earlier about, you’ve got a two-tiered system. You’ve got people walking in DC [and] you’ve got these wild investigations. You’ve got this guy, Ray Epps, that still nobody can tell me what the hell he was doing at the Capitol.

At one point he was on the FBI’s most wanted list. And then now he’s just disappeared. We have no information on the guy. It’s just outrageous and it’s out of control.

Mr. Patel:

Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone today propose a select committee to run this macro level, large investigation at Congress. But for those that don’t know, how does that get done? Does the speaker have to stand it up? Do Republicans have to get together? How does that even look?

Mr. Nunes:

There’s been a lot of them in the past and I think it’s just a vote of the House. It’d be best if the Senate would do the same thing, like both a House and Senate investigation. It probably will be a little harder though in the Senate because I think even on the Republican’s best day, it’s going to be a 51 or 52, 48 type of majority. There’s just not enough seats that the Republicans can win unless things go really poorly for the Democrats— it’s possible.

So the House for sure can create a special committee of some kind, give it funding and run this investigation. I don’t see how else they’re going to do it. I mean, it’s just too much for Jim Jordan to run. Jim’s got so many other issues that he’s got to look at.

Mr. Patel:

Sure.

Mr. Nunes:

Right? So it’s got to have full power. I mean, basically exactly like this Jan 6 ridiculous kangaroo court. There needs to be a real investigation of the Department of Justice. And I think until you do that, you’re going to continue what… As you and I found out, we just got the runaround all the time.

Mr. Patel:

We did. And then we were working with a Republican administration when you were the Republican chair of intel. So it was extremely frustrating. One of the things I definitely want to talk about before jumping over to Truth Social, which I definitely want to get into is Hunter Biden laptop. I want to go into it because it’s the intersection of intelligence and evidence and law enforcement, just like we found with Russiagate, just like we found with the Christopher Steele dossier and the reason we put out the Nunes memo and things like that.

This has been proven the Hunter Biden laptop to be evidence of criminality. But a year ago, or a year plus ago, just before the election, 51 intelligence officials including heads of the CIA and Department of Defense came out and said, the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation. How does that happen? And how do you prevent that from happening ever again?

Mr. Nunes:

Well, it goes to my point about starting at the top with the Department of Justice. This is one of those many issues that have to be investigated. Do you remember how poorly and continually the poor guy that actually did the right thing took that laptop to the FBI.

Mr. Patel:

Yes. It got destroyed.

Mr. Nunes:

And it got buried? His life has been destroyed. He’s been turned upside down. This is happening because of the Department of Justice and the FBI—plain and simple. And this should not be happening. It’s impossible that if the Hunter Biden laptop was the Donald Trump, Jr. laptop, I mean, it would’ve been locked up years ago. I mean, it would’ve been ugly. I mean, there’s so many things that are on that laptop that we’re now learning.

Look at how many crimes have been broken. I mean, you know this better than anyone. There’s probably 30 or 40 different crimes sitting on that laptop and you’re telling me four or five years later, you’ve done absolutely nothing?

Mr. Patel:

It’s shocking.

Mr. Nunes:

And this is what the Department of Justice… They have to answer to that. And the coordination that went in between the intelligence agencies and your old buddy the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Adam Schiff, I mean, he was the one that was pushing. He’s clearly been communicating with those intel agencies, with the campaigns. I think all of those people that signed that, they all took part and they had to knowingly take part in a cover up for political purposes. If they have clearances, there should be an investigation of everybody who signed that. Everybody who signed that letter, if they’re still holding a clearance-

Mr. Patel:

A lot of them are.

Mr. Nunes:

… they ought to be investigated and say, “Who’d you talk to? When did you talk to them?” Because as you know, you can’t use your clearance for political purposes. And clearly that’s what happened. I mean, these guys are not stupid Kash and you know damn well, those people that signed that letter knew that was not Russian disinformation. So the fact, if any of them are holding security clearances, they should be investigated, fully. Look, maybe some of them just signed it. Right? Who didn’t really know? Okay. I’m just going to sign it. But there had to be some of those people that were in the lead of that. They were concocting essentially a disinformation op using our nation’s intelligence apparatus.

Mr. Patel:

Wow. So I’ve really never heard of anyone take this writ large approach on Capitol Hill for the Select Committee. And then as you know, I think that’s a brilliant idea because security clearances are a privilege and these guys are out there using them to make millions of dollars as outside consultants, as former secretaries of defense or cabinet secretaries and high level intel officers. So those clearances can actually be revoked if it’s found out that they committed a fraud or broke the NDAs that they signed. So I think that’s a great point that no one is talking about. Maybe at least one of the committees can… That’s a narrow investigation that maybe an intel committee could take up alone.

Mr. Nunes:

I know. I think it’s actually underneath the whole rubric of that Department of Justice investigation.

Mr. Patel:

Okay.

Mr. Nunes:

I think all of that should… That’s why it’s such a large endeavor and I believe that’s going to be the only solution, like a full top to bottom tear down of the Department of Justice deep dive that then gets into all the intelligence agencies. And you’ve got to go back even before Russia, the Russia hoax through the Hunter Biden laptop hoax, through January 6th. All of this stuff has to be looked at because if not, every day that goes by, I can tell you the viewers that are watching this, the people that read Epoch Times, they don’t trust the Department of Justice. They don’t trust the FBI.

That is a bad place for this country to be. I don’t trust them. I was the former Chair of the House Intelligence Committee and I can tell you… I mean, I don’t trust the Department of Justice. I don’t trust the FBI. And that doesn’t mean there’s not… There’s a lot of great people that work in those agencies, but this is what I spent my whole career in Congress. A large part of my career was going to the second and third world countries, working with their intelligence agencies, talking about how to have free and fair elections [and] what has to happen.

What’s the number one thing? I mean, you’ve sat in a bunch of those meetings. I would always say, “Hey, at the end of the day, you’ve got to make sure that your judicial branch is separate and your intelligence agencies never get involved in any politics.” And here I went around for two decades preaching that. And it’s happening-

Mr. Patel:

In America.

Mr. Nunes:

… in America at the highest levels and it’s rotted out. Not just those institutions, it’s even spreading over into the courts.

Mr. Patel:

Yes.

Mr. Nunes:

Right? The judges, these federal judges could put a quick end to some of this. Right? The Jan 6 stuff, I mean, holding these people like the way they’re holding them, and I’ve always said, “Look, just throw the people in jail. The people who broke the windows, I want to know them. The people who planted the pipe bombs, I want to know who they are.” But I mean, this is crazy. They’re taking people, ruining their lives, leaving them in jail. We interviewed Julie Kelly the other day on my podcast. And I think you’ve interviewed her too.

How is it possible that people are going to jail that weren’t even in the building? And just for something that they said. Just for something that they said outside, it’d be like walking out to this street and saying, “Hey, I don’t like this. I don’t like that.” And then all of a sudden you’re going to be rotting in a jail and you’re going to get your life turned upside down because you’re exercising your ability to have free speech in this country, your first amendment rights. That’s what’s happening in this country. And the whole damn thing is rotting.

Mr. Patel:

I think you’re right. And I think for me as a former national security prosecutor and public defender, this two-tier system of justice keeps getting put on display, be it Russiagate, be it the Ukraine impeachment hoax, be it the Hunter Biden laptop. And now over January 6th, right? You have people who are charged… And I agree with you, those that broke actual laws should be prosecuted. But 60-year-old women with no criminal history should not be held in confinement before their trial date.

There used to be a presumption of innocence. And there’s this deafening silence from the liberal left and the ACLUs of the world that used to be their champions and their voices. One of the things I highlight for folks on Jan 6 is like, look at the way Colbert staff was treated. They did the exact same thing. They’re arrested by the Capitol police for breaking and entering and unlawfully being in the United States Capitol—not even around, in it.

Mr. Nunes:

Yes.

Mr. Patel:

And then magically the Department of Justice and the DC’s attorney’s office said, “We’re not going to prosecute you.”

Mr. Nunes:

He came into my office a couple times.

Mr. Patel:

Oh, that’s right. I remember that.

Mr. Nunes:

Barged into the office with all of his people acting like a moron. Right? So there’s a guy whose ratings have tanked. I mean, if it wasn’t for the woke corporates who continued to fund these operations, that guy wouldn’t have a show. He doesn’t have any viewers. He used to be funny back in the day, but he just politicized everything. Those activities that his team got busted or got caught doing not to be prosecuted. I mean, he’s been doing this for many, many years. Like I said, he did it to me at least on a couple occasions.

Mr. Patel:

Wow, that’s scary. Even for me, having known you as well as I’ve gotten to know you have become such good friends, I didn’t know those were some of your greater ideas. And those are really important for the audience to see that those things are possible. I know this well, and the people in your area know this well. You’re one of the greatest dinner hosts in the world when you get invited to a Devin Nunes dinner. So I remember late in December, right before you left Congress, we had this great dinner and you’re a big wine guy and you brought out all these special wines. And I was like, “Oh, this is really cool.”

But I didn’t really suspect something was up. And then two days later, you told me you were leaving Congress. Why? You were about to be chairman again of House Intel, if not Ways and Means controlling all the money in the United States government. One of the most powerful positions, literally in all three branches of the U.S. government. And you’re like, “I’m going to go run TMTG.”

Mr. Nunes:

Yes. Well, it’s really simple. And you know this. I wrote a little book called “Countdown of Socialism.”  Little did I know that was before the Hunter Biden laptop, that was before we found out that Facebook put in $419 million. It was before we ended up where President Trump got booted off of every platform. Because I was caught early on during the Russia hoax, me being shadowbanned. I was the first to go to Rumble. Anybody in America really to go to Rumble. Now, every conservative is on Rumble because it’s the only place that you’re going to be able to put your videos and be seen. 

Mr. Patel:

Yes. You put them on display in the Devin Nunes Freedom Tour.

Mr. Nunes:

Yes. That came after. Right? So this was in ’20 that I started using Rumble, then went to Parler. And I quickly found out, “Oh my God, what’s happening to us. This is destroying America. We’re not able to get our message out because it’s bad enough that 95 percent of the news is fake news.” But when you put it through that funnel, through the devices that everybody’s getting their information from, it’s how you ultimately end up.

I saw this polling after the election of 2020, what you and I know is a hoax, the Russia hoax. I saw after the election polling that showed still over half of America thought that Donald Trump and Republicans had something to do with Russia. And that’s when I went out all through 2021 on our freedom tour. So I was out talking about these issues, warning people that if you can’t even communicate with one another, the country is going to be in a really bad place. And that’s where we are. That’s where we sit today, except for what Truth Social is doing.

We’re opening the internet back up to give the American people their voice back. So I just viewed it as the most important issue at the highest level. So when President Trump called me… President Trump didn’t need a company. I didn’t need a job. We’re doing this for the American people and people around the globe just to give people their voice back.

Mr. Patel:

Wow.

Mr. Nunes:

And you see it every day on Truth Social. There’s so many of these people who were banned or shadowbanned. It’s actually refreshing every day to get on the Truth Social platform and see people exercise their freedom. We just got approved in the Google Play store for pre-order. This company isn’t even fully launched, right? We’ve only got five of the features built out of the 10 that we want to get done by the end of the year. It’s rewarding work, but at the same time, it’s absolutely necessary work to protect this democratic republic from rotting from within. You have to let people have basic communications with each other.

Mr. Patel:

Look, I mean, I always joke with people… You know this because you’ve known me for so long. I’ve never been on social media. People are like, “Why are you on Truth Social?” And I was like, “Well, it took two of my former bosses to get me on, President Trump and Devin Nunes. 

Mr. Nunes:

And you’re a superstar, man. Everybody loves you there.

Mr. Patel:

I got to say, it’s fun. It’s engaging. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone ask you this, but what’s your favorite one or two things about Truth Social? Is it a feature? What is it?

Mr. Nunes:

Good question. I think that the new feature set that we put out a few weeks ago where we wanted to make sure that we weren’t using an algorithm in the timeline and that we weren’t doctoring people’s feeds. So that’s critical, right? So whatever comes onto your feed comes on in order, which is great. But except that if you post at 7:00 AM and it’s 9:00 PM, people aren’t going to be able to go back in their feed and see what you posted without going to your page.

So we have that new carousel at the top that you’ve seen and that allows you to quickly interact with people that you choose to follow. So I think that is a great feature that we’ve added and that’ll continue to get better over time. So it’ll put people in that carousel that you want to be notified when they post. So it makes it easy. So at 9:00 PM, you haven’t checked Truth Social all day and you can get on there and you can say, “Okay, I want to see what Kash said. Or I want to see what Catturd said.” I don’t know who’s more popular on Truth Social, you or Catturd.

Mr. Patel:

Yeah. I think we’re going to have to flex some of my following because I can’t be less popular than the Catturd.

Mr. Nunes:

I mean, for the audience here, I mean, talk about a really interesting story of a guy who knew nothing about Truth Social or nothing about social media, much like yourself, and about three or four years ago, he just became a superstar because he’s just really funny. Nobody knows what he is or who he is.

Mr. Patel:

Oh, he’s still anonymous?

Mr. Nunes:

He’s anonymous. He’s just a cat. He’s a cat avatar. We interviewed him on the podcast here last week. He’s super funny, but a guy like that who is conservative was being shadow banned and censored on other platforms.

Mr. Patel:

Oh, wow.

Mr. Nunes:

And on our platform, he’s not being censored. So it was really an interesting interview. It’s those types of things that make you really enjoy the platform.

Mr. Patel:

I think what I’m also seeing is you’re launching businesses, small mom and pop brick and mortar— transforming. It’s the online universe and people are seeing… I’ve seen literally everything from obviously merchandise and whatnot, but wooden engravings to artwork, to so many other people finding a platform to launch successful businesses because they’re not getting shut down.

Mr. Nunes:

And the biggest one. And you know this is a big deal because the fake news is refusing to write about it. John Rich.

Mr. Patel:

Oh, yeah.

Mr. Nunes:

Number one song called “Progress.” He launched it on Truth Social and put the video to Rumble and it went to number one and stayed there nearly for two weeks.

Mr. Patel:

It was exclusively on Truth Social. He didn’t launch it anywhere else.

Mr. Nunes:

Nobody else would launch it. No record label would take it.

Mr. Patel:

Oh, wow.

Mr. Nunes:

Radio stations. All the woke corporates refused to play it. And that shows you the power of free speech, the power of Truth Social and Rumble. I don’t know a damn thing about music. Right? And for John Rich, to be able to post his song on Truth Social and to stay number one for nearly two weeks is incredible. I mean, it’s a story that hasn’t been written yet. It needs to be written, it needs to be investigated because this is now going to be the pathway to your point of people who want to really launch new products that can’t get an audience somewhere else. They’re going to be coming to Truth Social and Rumble in the future. And I think the John Rich number one hit song just proves that.

Mr. Patel:

No, that was so cool to me because I am a huge country music fan. And when you were like, “Hey, we’re doing this John Rich interview on my podcast.” I was like, “Yeah, I want to do it now. I know John Rich.” I’ve met so many great people, just through Truth Social that I never thought I would do. So I’ve come to learn a lot about the technology now behind social media platforms and I get that there’s all sorts of ways to get “canceled.” But when you say Truth Social, it can’t be canceled. I know you guys had that in mind when you built it, but most of our audience doesn’t know what that means.

Mr. Nunes:

Yeah. Good question. So we’re building Truth Social brick by brick, right? And that’s why we’re building it slow and methodical because we are not putting ourselves in a position where any of these big corporations could cancel us. For example, any normal business is going to… You’re going to go to IBM, Microsoft, Amazon Web Services. You’re going to work with them. Their teams, they’re going to provide the servers. That’s how a normal business would be put together. We’ve done the opposite where we’re not using any of those because they’re woke, they’re dangerous. And at any given point they could cut the cords. They could stop servicing us. Right?

So we are very careful, especially in terms of our data centers, we’re using… It’s being run on the Rumble cloud, right? So Rumble and us are really partnered together to ensure that none of these big tech companies can come in and shut us down. And I think that’s the main key in any companies that we work with. I mean, we’re very, very careful if we do, we’re not solely… We work with some outside contractors, very few, but we always have a backup plan in case something goes wrong with one of them. I think that’s the big difference.

Mr. Patel:

It’s the infrastructure, right? If there is one of these companies that owns just a piece of it, if they hit the ax and the whole thing goes down. So what I understand you’re saying is you’ve built it, so these companies can’t ever enter the ecosystem.

Mr. Nunes:

Nobody can stop us. All these big tech companies that everybody would think that any normal company, 99.9 percent of all the companies that use any type of technology in this country use one of the top five or top 10 of these big tech companies and we’re not doing it.

Mr. Patel:

Thanks so much again for having us and hosting us here in Sarasota—Truth Social headquarters. A lot of this conversation you and I have had in private, but I don’t think really it’s ever been publicized. So this is going to be a really cool episode and really interesting for America to see. We’ve talked about a lot of the corruption, a lot of the two-tier system of justice, the fake news media. We talked about how we went after it and exposed it. I think what a lot of Americans are at now is Republicans aren’t in power. We don’t have the White House. We don’t have Congress. We might get it soon. Is there a chance to fix it? Is there a chance to get it back on track? Do you believe that?

Mr. Nunes:

Yes, absolutely. Right? As you know, I’m a happy warrior, right? And I believe in this country, I believe in the Constitution. It’s why I’m here. It’s why I’m here at Truth Social because I believe in free speech, I believe in giving the American people their voice back just like the president has done. So what we’re doing here is changing people’s lives like we’ve talked about on a daily basis. So it’s slow and it’s hard. What’s going to have to happen if the Republicans are lucky enough to get back in power, these investigations are going to be tough. And they’re not going to be easy. But look, the first thing to solving a problem is to admit that you have a problem and this country has yet to admit that we have a problem.

I think that’s what the Republicans should be able to expose once they create and run these investigations. It’s probably going to be the most consequential investigations that have been run because you’re looking at five, six, seven years of massive corruption that have to be dealt with and have to be exposed. And it’s only going to happen using that power of the legislative branch. And then of course at the same time having social media, that’s not being censored so that the word of those investigations and the truth so to speak can be put out on Truth Social and places like Rumble so that the town square and the internet has opened up for people to receive that information. And that was really the hardest part that we had was-

Mr. Patel:

Getting it out.

Mr. Nunes:

It was getting it out. Because we get it out and they didn’t say, “Oh, Russian disinformation. Look at this memo over here.” I have faith and confidence in what we’re doing here at Truth Social, what Rumble is doing and what the Republicans can do when they get back in control that ultimately the American people will benefit and the country can begin to heal again. It’s just that there’s a lot of work that has to be done to get there.

Mr. Patel:

Maybe they’ll hire Devin Nunes and Kash Patel as outside consultants.

Mr. Nunes:

Yes.

Mr. Patel:

But look, I have one last question. We’ve had a blast here. This has just been a great time to do this format. So yes, I’ve found Dan Scavino so we’re not going to ask him where he is. But seven months out of Congress, right? You were in that seat for 20 years, seven months out. What do you miss?

Mr. Nunes:

From Washington? Not a damn thing. Probably the only thing that you have a lot of good people that I worked with over the years. Obviously, my former staff. You miss those folks. I think when I left Congress, I said that when I stood up before the Republicans and I said, “Look, guys, I’m leaving.” I said, “I’m going to miss some of you quite a bit, but most of you, I’m not going to miss at all.” Which was kind of a joke, but not entirely. I think the left has become so hardcore.

I give the example when I first went into Congress, you had Bernie Sanders in the House of Representatives at the time. He was the leader of the socialists. He was seen as a coupe, backbencher. There would be these votes that would put up that they would get 10 or 20 votes, right? And now those policies are now the mainstream of the Democratic Party that now get well over 200 votes in the house. So you’ve got a party that really went from the Democratic Party to a Marxist socialist party.

Mr. Patel:

So Devin, thanks so much for your time. We’ve had a blast down here in Sarasota Truth Social headquarters. Really appreciate it. Great seeing you as always. Thanks so much.

Mr. Nunes:

Appreciate it.

Mr. Patel:

Well, everybody, that’s a wrap for this week’s special episode with Devin Nunes here in Sarasota, Florida, Truth Social headquarters. And of course, it’s time for our shout-out. And this week we have a twofold shout-out. One it’s to the Epoch TV road warriors that made this happen. Thank you for this show and all the production that you guys do to make Kash’s Corner a reality. And the second thanks has to go to the Truth Social team. I want to shout-out to Jack and Matheus and North Wallen Company for making Truth Social such a kick-ass platform. Keep posting on there, keep posting on Kash’s Corner’s commentary board, and we will see you next week on Kash’s Corner.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

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