A decade ago, Curtis Bowers made the documentary “Agenda: Grinding America Down” detailing a communist agenda to corrupt American institutions—from education to Hollywood to media—and subvert America and its values from within.
The main strategy was to divide and conquer—to turn Americans against each other.
In this episode, we sit down with Bowers to discuss what his film can tell us about our current political moment, and how Americans can reconnect with their neighbors.
This is American Thought Leaders 🇺🇸, and I’m Jan Jekielek.
Jan Jekielek: Curtis Bowers, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.
Curtis Bowers: I’m so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Mr. Jekielek: Curtis, it has been 10 years now since you made the film “Agenda: Grinding America Down,” essentially looking at the communist agenda in America and its impacts. What are you seeing happening today?
Mr. Bowers: Well, I’m seeing that it’s continuing on, but even in a much more purposeful, open way than it has in the past. For many years, it’s been more of a behind the scenes, subtle thing in the background, but now it’s on our streets. And it’s amazing that it’s gone in that direction so quickly.
Mr. Jekielek: Curtis, a big premise of this film, or something that’s explored is that there is this agenda from years back of transforming America into a more socialist and ultimately communist country. I think you make the case that socialism is the road to communism. It’s a stepping stone. You describe in the “Agenda” film a meeting that you decided to attend that piqued your interest in the topic. I think it was back in 1992. Tell me a little bit about what it was like to go to that meeting and what you learned.
Mr. Bowers: Well, I went to the meeting as a favor to a gentleman that had been studying communism his whole life and written many books on it. And he knew he couldn’t go to the meeting. He said they’ll know who I am. So would you go and just hear what they’re having to say? Again, people need to remember that in 1989 the Berlin Wall had come down, and then in December of 1991, the Soviet Union had dissolved. Now this is six months later, the summer of 1992.
And the Communist Party USA was having a meeting to break off a new group. So I went to the meeting as a favor to somebody. The first shock was immediate. When I walked into the room, I thought it was going to be college radicals. So I had bought a T-shirt that said something about a revolution. I thought that’s what it would be about.
Walking into the auditorium, it was about 1400 people or so, all 50, 60, and 70 year olds with briefcases and suits on, and I was one of the few younger people there. That was a wake up call that this might be a little more serious than it appears on the surface. And so that was the first big shock with that.
Mr. Jekielek: Well, so what happened there? What did you learn about an agenda?
Mr. Bowers: Well, they clearly talked about how they wanted to finish us off from within. They’ve been working to undermine our families and our business structure and our morality for a long time. But they said, “We need to really step that up now even more.” They acknowledged they were disappointed that the Soviet Union had to back down from the world revolution as far as militarily and things. “Now we just need to continue what we’ve been doing at a more serious level through education, media, and entertainment.” They wanted to influence the next generation and people to come alongside them in their movements to try to slowly take us down from within.
Mr. Jekielek: What were your political views at the time when you went in? You were obviously going in incognito.
Mr. Bowers: Yes, I was a conservative, and I was raised that way. My parents were teaching me how things work when I was young, so I knew what was going on. But again, I went in just saying, “Is this thing for real?” And I had bought into the lie too. Not the lie, but the deception, you know, Ronald Reagan won the Cold War, which he did. And he did some wonderful things. But as if that meant communism is done, it’s over. And I kind of bought into that.
So now going there and being in a meeting where there’s over 1000 of them, I heard how passionate they were. I could pick up every thought, almost like it was a pastor at a church pounding the pulpit. The way they talked about America and the free enterprise system that we love and appreciate was hard to comprehend.
I could still picture the old guy out there talking about that. He said, “It’s the most evil system that has ever been devised,” just pounding the pulpit and sweating. I left thinking these people are from another planet. They don’t have a clue. There’s no way they will succeed with their plans. That’s what I thought back then, about 30 years ago.
Mr. Jekielek: That’s interesting. So this is 1992. Then something changed. You started seeing some tangible changes, subsequently. I think everybody was celebrating. I was pretty young at the time, but seeing that my parents escaped from communist Poland, this makes me a little bit emotional.
I remember my mother believing the Soviet Union could never fall. This is what they were taught. The Soviet Union had occupied Poland, and they were very acutely aware of that. So when the Soviet Union fell, for my parents, it was some sort of unbelievable miracle. You argue that people took their eyes off the ball, and an agenda was advanced. So what happened?
Mr. Bowers: Well, then I had 16 years of getting married and having children and doing business things, because it’s such a wonderful country to do them in. I had just been enjoying America. Then in 2008, I’m a state representative in Idaho. All of a sudden legislation was coming across my desk. That’s the thing that first brought back the memory of that meeting.
In business, they were calling me about some environmental legislation, saying this legislation doesn’t do anything to help the environment, but it destroys my business. Would you vote against this? I started to look into it more. That’s when I thought, “Wait a minute.” That’s what they had said back in 1992 as the way they were going to take down the free enterprise system. They said they were going to get behind the environmental movement and use it to create so much regulation and red tape, that it would be hard for a business to survive.
In 1992, when they said that, that was hard to even understand because the environmental movement was the people chaining themselves to trees in Oregon and stuff like that. It was not a mainstream movement. But by 2008, the film “Inconvenient Truth” had just come out. And it was the biggest movement in the entire world. That’s what made me revisit what they had said, and then really dig into the communist movement at a much more serious level.
Mr. Jekielek: Let’s look at some of the things that we’re talking about. You also mentioned in the film a book called “The Naked Communist,” which was written quite a bit earlier. It also describes a very specific agenda of transforming society into the communist image. Let’s take a few of them that you think are particularly relevant attempts at transformation. Maybe we can map them into what we’re seeing across America today.
Mr. Bowers: Absolutely. I’ve got a list right here because I thought you might bring that up. “Goal 17.” All the surveys show 70 plus percent of young people want socialism. One of the polls even had 30 percent of young people saying they wanted communism. Obviously they don’t know what either one of those things is. They’ve been brainwashed to think that they’re good.
“Goal 17.” These goals were gathered by FBI agents in the 40’s and 50’s and then put together into “The Naked Communist.” The “Goal 17” that they were talking about in their meetings was to get control of the schools, use the mass transmission belts for socialism, and soften the curriculum. “We’re going to use them as transmission belts for socialism to teach socialist ideas and philosophies and make them sound like they’re just and right and true and be focused on that.”
That’s so vital for so many reasons. One is, “the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.” We all know that saying but it’s a true statement. Every two-bit dictator in history has known that you have to get to the children. This agenda has been primarily focused on influencing the culture so they could influence the children and take over education so they could control the future. Because if you teach 70 percent of young people to love socialism, when they grow up, we are going to have socialism.
Mr. Jekielek: This makes me think of the prevalent freedom of speech issues we’re seeing on campus, which is more in the university setting. How is this connected?
Mr. Bowers: You can call it political correctness, which is just Cultural Marxism. It was the Frankfurt School, which was a Marxist group that came up with that whole idea of making certain things off limits. You can’t talk about that. It’s hateful, or it’s this or that.
They always come up with some reason why you can’t have free speech. In doing so you’re not allowed to ever tell the other side of the story. And like the old saying goes, “Every story sounds true til you hear the other side.”
The young people have never heard the other side. If the young people could meet with your parents that grew up in Poland, and have them say, “This is what it was like for us.” If those type of things could happen, then the lies disappear very quickly. That’s why they had to have political correctness. That’s why they have rules of what can be said and not said on college campuses. Because you’re not going to buy the lie once you hear the truth if it’s presented side by side. That’s been a key strategy to do away with the freedom of speech.
Mr. Jekielek: You dig into this in the film certainly, and you know quite a bit about this. Briefly tell me about the Frankfurt School and also Herbert Marcuse, who’s someone that you talk about in that film that is pivotal in this Cultural Marxist agenda.
Mr. Bowers: The Frankfurt School is a group of intellectuals that were brought to America back in the 1930’s because of the war churning up in Europe. They were Marxist and communist. John Dewey, who is the father of modern public education, is the one that brought them over to America and dropped them down at a lot of our top universities.
Willi Munzenberg, who was one of the leaders, outlined their goals. He basically said, “We’re going to make the West so corrupt, it stinks. We’re going to rock them from within, and we’re going to teach immorality to the young people. We’re going to try to push pornography and we’re going to try to increase alcoholism.” They had a lot of goals in things.
They came over and they were put in a lot of the top schools. Their goal was to capture media and education, and then to change the culture through capturing those institutions. In the movie, one of the slogans they came up with is “make love, not war.” It’s really about subtly breaking down traditions, breaking down the way we’ve always done things, and then setting the stage to present something new to the young people. They have done so much damage in Hollywood and in the educational system. That’s why they’ve both changed so much.
Mr. Jekielek: In the introductory clip at the beginning of the Agenda II film you have Agustin Blazquez, a Cuban filmmaker and a staunch anti-communist. He has a very interesting story. At one point his family were supporters of the revolution, because they believed in this beautiful new world that they could create in place of what was already there. Tell me a bit about that, and this type of idealism and the deception that uses that.
Mr. Bowers: It was sobering 50 years after that talking to him. He said, “A lot of the propaganda I’m hearing in America right now sounds exactly what Castro was doing back then.” Back then we all thought, this sounds good. It’s about justice and equality and being fair and being for the people. It’s just the same deception over and over again.
His family said, “We knew it was really bad one night when we were watching the television station, and we saw our uncle go before a firing squad on the evening news.” That was when we realized something’s changing. Because when they first come to power communists sometimes don’t get drastic immediately. They slowly make sure they have control of everything and keep talking propaganda. Then they crack down.
He told me about the crack down. His dad came home one day from their sugar plantation which was one of the largest in Cuba. He said for hours he wouldn’t even talk. Mom kept asking, “What’s wrong, what’s wrong?” He just shook his head and couldn’t talk. It finally came out later. He said, “We have nothing. They’ve taken everything. They just took the sugar plantation. I’m just working for them now out in the fields cutting the sugarcane.”
He had so many stories of what that is like, which our young people don’t understand. And most Americans don’t understand. We just don’t understand. I’ve had the blessing of and privilege of talking to hundreds of these people all over America. Because of the film, they come up and tell me their stories. And they’re all the same: “We were promised all this and we got nothing except a nightmare.” And it’s really powerful.
When he was getting ready to leave Cuba at 18 years old, and not ever come back, he couldn’t even tell his own parents, because he said every family had an informant. And he didn’t know who it was. And he was scared it might stop him from being able to go. He got some kind of permission to go get a degree to come back and help Cuba be better. He knew that he was not coming back and he never did, but he couldn’t tell his own parents. That’s a system of fear.
One time when he was just walking down the street as a teenager, he was thrown in the back of a police car and taken to prison. He spent 24 hours there and was abused, and then let go. I said, “Why did they do that?” He said, “So I would be in such fear of them, I would always obey them. They do it to everybody, periodically. You didn’t do anything wrong, you were just there. That’s when I knew I had to leave, I was scared to leave my home most of the time, unless I had to.”
Communism and socialism leads to that. The reason people don’t understand why it leads to that, and it has to lead to that, is that socialism doesn’t work. As it starts to collapse, the people in power are not going to lose their power. So that’s when the guns come out.
They can only do that if they’ve created a socialist society, where they have the levers of control. It’s hard to go from free enterprise to communism, because the people still own all the wealth and the power and the money-making things. That’s a hard transition, you’ve got to go into socialism first.
Let the government get the levers of power. Then whenever you need to, you can say, “No more Mr. Nice Guy,” and you have the ability to do that. Because you can shut off the electrical power, or have the person lose their job or whatever you need to do. But it always goes that way. Because these systems do not work.
Mr. Jekielek: There are so many things to unpack in what you just talked about. The first one reminds me of the informants thing. That’s something that anyone that I’ve ever spoken to that’s lived in a communist country understands completely. But for people that have not lived in a communist country it’s kind of baffling because it’s hard to imagine.
It reminds me of the film “The Lives of Others,” which won Best Foreign Language Film at the 2006 Academy Awards. I’d recommend it to everybody watching right now. “The Lives of Others,” is the English translated title. Basically, it’s about a Stasi agent. This is the East German secret police known as one of the worst in the Soviet bloc.
It explains what it would be like to live in a society where everyone is informing on everybody else. They’re incentivized both positively, i.e. they’ll get some benefits for doing it, or negatively, in exactly the way that you described. It’s expected that you will inform. It’s expected that you will contribute to dossiers.
I remember [learning that] back in Poland—and I’m kind of ranting a little bit here myself—I remember in Poland people were stunned after 1989 when they opened up the archives. They showed parish priests were informing on people that were confessing to them, for example. Husbands had been informing on their wives contributing to these dossiers. It was all unimaginable and unthinkable even to people there who knew that everyone was informing. They expected that some of these relationships would still be holy and outside of that, but it just wasn’t the case.
That’s my comment. I’m going to get back to speaking with you here. How does this apply to us today? We’ve had an incredibly tumultuous year 2020. I keep seeing people say we thought we had seen it all for 2020, and then something else comes up that makes it even crazier. What are you seeing in terms of these realities that you’ve documented in Agenda and know with respect to today?
Mr. Bowers: Even in relation to what you were just talking about, that informant in every family. That concept is the final level of division where you’ve even broken down every family to where individual people that can’t even talk to each other. The same thing is going on right now with all these movements to try to divide us from each other, to make us think we’re all against each other and to make people discontented and fearful of each other. That is all Marx’s strategy.
No well-meaning person would ever try to get people to think we’re against each other and not think the best, and not work toward the best. So it’s divide and conquer. They know a country like America is so strong and healthy and unified that it would be impossible to conquer. And so we’ve got to divide them up with the rich against the poor, the blacks against the whites, and the young against the old. Anything you can do.
[They are] just creating groups of people, not to help those people, but to use those people. They never provide what they promised. They just promise you everything to get you to come along and join their bandwagon. But it doesn’t ever materialize into what they told you, because it’s not supposed to. Because you never want to solve those problems, you only want to make them worse.
For an average person that’s something that’s difficult to understand. I remember when I first realized, “These people don’t think like I do.” That’s why I’ve underestimated them. That’s why I’ve been so naive, because I would never think of trying to turn someone against someone else, or cause division and hatred and anger and confusion. But these people do that. We have to understand that.
Look at the education in America that we were just talking about. Why has not a single educational program through the last five or six presidents, Republican or Democrat, done anything to improve our public schools? You’re just told we need more money. They don’t want to solve the problem. Because when you solve a problem, the government needs less power.
If a problem can become larger, then they need more power to be able to solve the bigger problem. That’s why they always want to make big problems get bigger and bigger. Anyone that’s part of the establishment, whether it’s Republicans or Democrats, you want the government to be able to expand and keep having more coming in to solve bigger problems.
As I studied and looked through it, it was like that for every single one of them from Bush Sr. to Clinton to Bush Jr. to Obama. I used to be a high school math teacher. When I was in education, you could see clearly this isn’t going to help the system. This is not going to help these kids get a better education, it’s going to hurt that process.
You see the lie of that, and then you realize that they want the system to create someone that’s not capable of providing for themselves. Then the government has to step up even more to provide jobs and incomes and health care, because these people literally don’t have the character, the virtue, the morality and the discipline to be able to do that. That’s what we’re seeing and it’s happening in so many areas. Divide and conquer is a communist strategy that they have used from the beginning.
Mr. Jekielek: That’s very interesting. A lot of very well meaning people would say, no, it’s just mismanagement. It’s a conspiracy theory to say someone is undermining the education system so that American children do poorly and they’re more susceptible to control. What evidence did you find of this?
Mr. Bowers: Yes, well, several things. Actually, that was my thought for 30 years, “These [mismanaging] people are just naive. They just don’t know what makes a good education.” But then something happened. I started homeschooling my own kids. And as we did that, I realized to teach a five or six year old to read, it only takes about an hour a day for six months. How are we turning out 18 year olds who have been in the system for 13 or 14 years, and they can barely read?
Wait a minute, something’s wrong here. The evidence is crystal clear. We know how to give a child a good education. We’ve known that for hundreds of years. It’s rigorous debate and argument, logical thinking, mathematics and science. If you look at the schools today, hardly any of that is there.
They’ve taken out all the things that make someone have a sharp mind that can discern truth from error. They didn’t want someone that can discern truth from error. Because you cannot use a person that can discern truth from error. And so it’s been very purposeful. There’s plenty of evidence to show that
Mr. Jekielek: What made you decide to homeschool?
Mr. Bowers: That same thing that we just talked about. Having been a teacher myself 20 years ago, I thought, “This system is broken.” Everything is dumbed down to the lowest level; you’re not trying to pull the cloud up; you’re having to teach to the lowest level. And so the sharp kids get bored, then all the people in the middle are kind of “Whatever.”
Clearly, it was a system that just wasn’t working for me. I want my kids to have a future. To have a future you need a good education, you need to know how to read and how to think. So if you can read anything, you can learn anything. It’s why I tell my kids, “I’m not going to be able to teach you everything. But if you’re a great reader, everything I didn’t teach you is in a book. You can read any book on any topic at any time and become an expert. You can read history so you can go back in time and live with people that you’ll never get to know. You can go meet people you’ll never meet and you can do so much in a book.”
Phyllis Schlafly spent so much of her life exposing what had been happening in the educational system to make children where they weren’t good readers purposely. They couldn’t even read about the founding fathers because it would require sufficient reading skills. They wouldn’t know where we came from, or where we’re going. A very key piece of taking over a country is dumbing down the population.
Mr. Jekielek: Fascinating, and of course very deeply disturbing to know that this is something that some people are thinking of. I’m thinking about the Cloward-Piven strategy created by two Columbia University professors, which I’m sure you’re very familiar with. I don’t believe this figures into your movies, per se. The idea that someone would create a plan to overwhelm the welfare system in New York City in order to break the connection between work and compensation, with an idea to create this better world, so to speak.
When I first read about that just within the last several years I was stunned to imagine that someone actually conceived of this and actually implemented it and arguably was was ultimately successful in bankrupting the city. Are there other examples of these plans or agendas that come to you?
Mr. Bowers: The whole philosophy behind that plan is to create chaos. It’s to cause the system to collapse. Anything to make things worse, like I was saying before. I know a lot of people listening wonder, “they want to make things worse?” Yes, they do. I know you don’t think like that because you’re a nice, thoughtful, kind, loving person. But these people do.
You read “Rules for Radicals” by Saul Alinsky, who is the commander of the current movement. I’ve actually got some of his quotes right here. You lie about the opposition, while accusing them of lying about you. You’re flipping everything around on its head. That’s what this is.
But the Cloward-Piven strategy has to burden down the system so it will collapse. Through collapse, then you can maybe put your puppet up that’s for the people. And that’s for justice and equality. It’s always to divide people from the poor. It’s to use the poor, not help the poor.
Who has done more to help the poor recently than anyone? President Trump, whether you like him or not. President Trump created circumstances that helped more people get jobs than any time in the history of America, especially of minorities. I was so excited about that. I think 10 million people just in his first three years were removed off the welfare rolls. That’s a successful campaign right there.
With the Cloward-Piven strategy, they wanted to increase the welfare rolls and get more people tied into the system, a system that we know doesn’t work. Has it freed people over time? No, it hasn’t. No matter how we could argue about the well-meaningness or not of these programs, the reality is we have a track record of 60 years to look at now. And still we go, “It might work!”
It doesn’t help anyone get independence and freedom or help in being prosperous and enjoying the benefits of living in America. It doesn’t do that. It will enslave them generationally in these entitlements.
What’s going on right now like that, to answer your question, is the mail-in voting. Anything to discredit any part of America, where we lose confidence in our system. So many people have done these studies, just recently in the last few weeks, and have already exposed all the corruption. People are ballot harvesting and everything else. That’s another way that they’re discrediting the whole system. When you want to destroy something, you need to start breaking it apart into pieces so that it can collapse.
Mr. Jekielek: So what are you recommending to people? You made a prediction in 2010 and said things are going in a bad way. You challenged people to make a difference. You had a second film, “Agenda II,” which pointed in the exact same direction. You argued even a little bit here today that things still have not gone well. There’s a lot of disillusioned people. What do you say to people?
Mr. Bowers: Don’t ever think that Washington DC is the solution to our problems. It’s one piece of the puzzle, but we can’t wait too much on them to get things done when they’re not good at doing anything. We should be more focused on our local area; our cities or towns or counties.
What can we do as citizens to improve any problem that exists in our community? How can we organize here to accomplish this at the local level? So there won’t be anything for the federal government to do? Because when we’ve already solved our own problems, there’s accountability. There’s real relationships with real people. It’s our children that we’re talking about. It’s not somebody else’s children.
And that’s what we’ve got to do. We’ve got to break away from the entanglements of thinking we need to do things the federal government’s way, and that they’re the solution. And if it’s not working now, then if we just get our guy in there, then it’ll be working. We’ve been seeing for a long time that doesn’t do too much.
I think President Trump has done a good job in doing what he said he would do. That is so refreshing, whether you like him or not. To have someone do what he said he would do is such a breath of fresh air. At least he’s honest whether you like what he’s doing or not. That’s one key part. We have to act if we want to have real solutions to real problems,
We need to go after the young people. We have to do what they’ve done, which is just logical common sense. If you’re not imparting what you believe into people that are younger than you before you die, your ideas are dying off. You have to be investing in, influencing, and educating people that are younger than you, maybe your own children and grandchildren, or maybe somebody else’s.
If you’re an older man, go to the local college and invite some of the guys over for pizza. Show them how to change the oil on their car, build relationships, and then you can start to have influence. We just want them to believe what we say. And they’re not going to because they’ve been brainwashed in such a way.
It’s hard to buy the opposite of what you’ve been told without a lot of conditioning for that to happen. It needs a relationship for that to happen. Because it’s too big a bridge to cross. That’s how you know that brainwashing is going on. Because when you present the truth to someone, and they can’t accept it, even when it’s clear, and they know you’re not lying, that means they’ve been brainwashed. If you’re just ignorant about something and someone tells you a different way of doing things. Oh, what about this? You say, “Oh, I didn’t know that. Thanks, I appreciate you sharing that with me.”
I was in the restaurant business for years, and had hundreds of college students work for me. We were good friends, because they had worked there for three or four years at a time. But they were very, very liberal for being college students. And we would have great debates in the evenings on so many current events. But they knew I loved them.
And I would always present the truth to them. So many times the young people I knew well would tell me what they thought on an issue. Then I’d say, “Okay, now listen to this.” I would share with them the other side of that story. A lot of times, they couldn’t take that step, even though they knew everything I said was true. They knew that I wasn’t lying, that I’m not a liar, and that I care about them. They would just say, “My professor said…” and I could tell they’ve been brainwashed.
When you can’t take a step when facts are right in front of you, that shows what you believe wasn’t true, that’s a problem. That’s what we have going on. That’s why we really need to build the relationships and invest the time in young people. Then keep doing what we can do in our circle of influence. That’s what I encourage you to do. If you have three friends, influence those three friends. We need to realize the only solutions to our problems are coming from the bottom up, they’re not going to be coming from the top down.
Mr. Jekielek: So, Curtis, we’ve seen over the last several months, a huge movement, Black Lives Matter. A lot of people out on the streets protesting the unfair treatment of black Americans at the hands of police and elsewhere. At the same time, we’ve learned that some of the leadership of the actual organization Black Lives Matter are avowed Marxists. Is this concerning to you.? Are you aware of this?
Mr. Bowers: Yes, it is. Because I know Marxists, as we talked about before, don’t want to solve problems. They want to create problems, or make problems that exist much, much worse. Saul Alinsky mentioned in his book that this is one of the key strategy points. He said that we need to separate the revolution from communism to disguise where we’re really going. And so that’s what this is.
When you see the buildings burning down, that’s not helping black people in America in any way, shape, or form. Their solution is always worse than the problem most of the time. But there is one book for those that want to know more about how the black community has been used by the communists for decades in this country. It’s a book called “Color, Communism, and Common Sense,” by Manning Johnson.
Manning Johnson was a black man who was one of the leaders in the Communist Party USA. And he had even gone over to Moscow to train. He started to realize, “Wait a minute, this is about using black people, not helping them.” He wrote that he defected from the Communist Party. He testified before Congress about what they had done to hurt the black community. Then he wrote this book.
He traveled and spoke for one year, and then he died, which was a tragedy. He would have been such a powerful force in exposing this Marxist strategy to use the black community. They customize their strategy for any group of people. But for the black people that had been so used for so long or mistreated in different ways, they’re trying to stir that back up again.
What I think is that it’s truly gotten so much better. I know that there are racial problems, yes, but they’re not nearly what they make them out to be. But we need to do one thing, and I’ll encourage people with another action point. I feel so bad about what has happened and how things have been stirred up. I’ve done this many times.
When I see some black families or individuals sitting together somewhere when they’re not in a hurry or busy, I come over and say, “With all that’s going on in the country, is it okay if I share something with you?” They always say, “Sure what is it?” I’m thinking of these two black men that were sitting on a bench at this hotel I came out of, and I said that to them.
I said, “I’m obviously white, as you can see, and I’ve known thousands of white people of my life. And I’ve never met one that doesn’t love and appreciate you all. We even admire you, and your athletic abilities and your music abilities and your sense of humor. I just want to know when people tell you whites hate you, they’re lying to you. We do not hate you. We love you. We’re thankful for you. I just wanted to share that with you, because I feel terrible about what’s going on in our country.”
And the one man right when I said that, he stood up and said, “You tell that to every black person you meet.” And I said, “Okay, I’ll try to.” It lifted the burden on his back of thinking that “white people hate me.” That is a lie. There might be a few white people in America that hate me, but it’s not even a tenth or a thousandth of 1%. But we fixate on that.
The media does because they love stirring things up. They’re part of this. We’re totally unified in so many areas. But again, they want division. But those that are white can go over the top in a loving way to let them know, “I’m so glad you’re in my country. We love you, we’re thankful for you. Don’t believe anything else someone’s telling you.” I’ve done it many times, and it really lifts their spirits. They say, “Oh, thank you.” And I say, “You’re welcome.” Anyways, those are the type of things we can be doing that impact real people at a local level.
You’re right there and you’re changing somebody’s life. I help remove that lie from those people where they’re free the rest of their life. They’re not thinking “All these white people hate me,” which is a horrible thought. I hate that the media pounds that into their minds, because it’s evil to tell someone that. I have a lot of opportunities to say, “We love you, we’re so thankful for you. We’re thankful to live with you, and you’re part of America. Don’t ever let them separate you from us, we want you with us.”
That’s what we need to do in all these different areas. Start exposing the lies one person at a time, and then look for solutions at the local level to combat this strategy that tries to destroy this wonderful country that’s been a blessing to so many people.
Mr. Jekielek: So Curtis, what are you doing these days?
Mr. Bowers: Well, I’m doing a lot of different things. I’ve been traveling the last several months, speaking all over the country on these topics. Because as the buildings started burning, people started saying, “Your movies were talking about this stuff, weren’t they?” And I said, “Yes, they were.” So I’ve been doing that. I do a podcast that I’m just getting going plus working on some other educational tools to let people know what’s going on. On a weekly basis, here’s what you need to be doing to make a difference.
Mr. Jekielek: Curtis, any final thoughts before we finish up?
Mr. Bowers: I’d like to say thank you for what you’re doing. I appreciate your shows. I appreciate what the Epoch Times is doing. It’s a blessing to have a new source out there that’s speaking the facts people can listen to and decide to believe or not, but without this big agenda. You have all been a tremendous blessing to me personally, and to the thousands of people I’ve met that are taking the paper and learning about what’s really going on.
I’ve studied what’s going on in the world and specifically in America. Marxism is the dominant philosophy that’s dominating the world. The BBC in 1999 had a survey asking people who was the most influential person of the last thousand years and Karl Marx won.
You are the only paper that is telling people what the Marxists are doing, what their philosophies are, and what their strategies are, so that we can have our eyes open and see this threat that is all around us wherever we are in the world. That it’s really happening. You have been such a blessing because it’s helped people finally get the information on what Marxism is. That this is what’s really going on. This is what they’re really saying. This is what they’re really doing. This is their real philosophy.
I recommend to people wherever I go that they need to be a subscriber of the Epoch Times. It’s just one piece of the puzzle, but it’s a key one because they’re giving you something that you cannot get anywhere else. It’s incredibly valuable.
Mr. Jekielek: Curtis, thank you so much for those kind words and such a pleasure to have you on.
Mr. Bowers: Likewise, thank you so much.
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.