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How Americans Bankrolled the Chinese Regime’s War Against Us: Frank Gaffney

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The Chinese Communist Party has “killed at least 100 million human beings out of the womb and they claim they’ve killed 400 million still in the womb. This is unprecedented in terms of man’s inhumanity to man,” says Frank Gaffney.

Gaffney is the executive chairman at the Center for Security Policy and the co-author of the new report, “The CCP is at War with America,” which breaks down the Chinese regime’s global ambitions and the ways in which it conducts unrestricted warfare against the United States.

“Once [COVID-19] was out of the laboratory—whether by accident or unleashed purposefully—what we know happened is that the Chinese Communist Party deliberately, purposefully, and malevolently released it on the rest of the world,” Gaffney says.

In the last few decades, he argues that the United States has poured trillions of dollars into the Chinese economy, in effect bankrolling the Chinese Communist Party’s war on America.

“Every American—and there’s about 160 million of us, we reckon, who has money in the U.S. capital markets today—must say to their financial managers, their pension fund managers, the people who are handling their investments, ‘I don’t want my money invested in Chinese Communist Party companies. Period. Get it out of there.’ Do it while you still can, by the way.”

Read the new report. 

Editor’s Note: In the interview, Gaffney incorrectly stated the number of closed Confucius Institutes. The correct number is 104 closed out of 118 institutes.

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Jan Jekielek:

Frank Gaffney, such a pleasure to have you back on American Thought Leaders.

Frank Gaffney:

I want to say, not only is it a pleasure to be with you, but what you are doing with this program is of surpassing importance, and it is a real privilege to contribute again.

Mr. Jekielek:

That’s wonderful. Let’s talk about your new book, your new report. You have a book in hand, “The CCP is at War with America,” which you just published. It’s essentially a report, and the subtitle is quite provocative: “The Chinese Communist Party’s COVID-19 Biological Warfare Attack and What’s Next.”

Mr. Gaffney:

Back in 1976, at a critical moment in the Cold War, a group of people were brought into the Central Intelligence Agency under the rubric of something that at the time was called Team B. The idea was to get a second opinion on the advisability of detente with the existential threat to freedom known as the Soviet Union. Detente was another French word for engagement.

The idea was to have these experts look at all of the classified information and say, “Is this advisable?” They did, and they came away saying, “Not only is this not advisable, this is a formula for our destruction, because the Soviet Union is our mortal enemy. It is building up, while we disarm. It is a danger that we cannot continue to facilitate by detente.”

This turned into a group called The Committee on the Present Danger, one of whose members was Ronald Reagan, who was then preparing for his second run for the presidency. He asked that group to help him put together a strategy, not for detente or even to coexist with the Soviets, but to roll them back. That strategy was something he then ran on in 1980. He was elected and got a mandate to implement it. He did, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Let’s flash forward. We then put together what we called Team B3. We also did an additional one in 2010 about sharia. B3 was to get a second opinion from the official line that the intelligence community just couldn’t determine the provenance of this so-called SARS-CoV-2 virus. We had serious people as members of our Team B panel, including Dr. Steven Hatfill, arguably the country’s preeminent expert on virology and certainly on biological warfare. We looked at all of the evidence and we found it did not come from natural sources. But we did find a lot of circumstantial evidence, because that’s all there was. Nonetheless, we found circumstantial evidence that it came out of a biological warfare facility in Wuhan, China, called the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

We don’t know how it got out of that laboratory, but it was manufactured in that laboratory. That is really beyond dispute at this point. It is a biological warfare agent, and not a particularly virulent one, by the way, certainly compared to a lot of other stuff that’s being cooked up in that laboratory, especially with the help of Dr. Fauci, and our gain of function research and financing which helped produce this virus. Our Team B3 concluded that it came out of this laboratory, whether by accident or unleashed purposefully. The Chinese Communist Party then deliberately, purposefully, and malevolently exported it to the rest of the world.

As you know, they were locking down Wuhan for internal travel, but they facilitated international travel. In fact, Dr Hatfill has sources who have told him they actually were subsidizing elderly people from Wuhan to go to the United States to see their family.

We believe and have said that this makes the COVID-19 pandemic a biological warfare attack against the United States and the rest of the world, but particularly against the United States. Tragically, it has been proof that the Chinese Communist Party has had a bigger goal for decades, which is to develop an illegal biological warfare capability to depopulate the United States, so that it could be colonized by communist China.

The source for that is not speculation or analysis of the available evidence. The source is a secret speech that I believe the Epoch Times brought to public attention, made by General Chi Haotian, who was the defense minister of China in the early 2000s.

Chi Haotian was speaking very candidly to a party cadre cohort about the war they were engaged in with the United States and the ultimate objective, which was to destroy America so that China could once again become the center of the universe, the middle kingdom, and the dominant world power.

That is the war they have been waging against us for over two decades. It’s called “unrestricted warfare,” as you know. It is also a people’s war that was declared in May of 2019. Shortly thereafter, there was biological warfare against the United States, now giving rise to the present conditions, in which they may go fully kinetic over Taiwan.

Mr. Jekielek:

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Okay. You’ve brought up about 15 things we have to follow up on. First of all, it is true the Chinese Communist Party has an active biological warfare program. That is beyond dispute. For those watching, I wanted to say that.

Mr. Gaffney:

And it is illegal. They have a treaty obligation not to have such a capability under the Biological Weapons Convention.

Mr. Jekielek:

Essentially, the internal policy for China is to have everything possible be dual use. You have a Wuhan Institute of Virology. Let’s say you’re doing vaccine research. One of the theories about the virus was that if it were an accidental release, it was vaccine research that was going on. It was a genetic modification of a coronavirus that then got out.

Mr. Gaffney:

That is Tony Fauci’s line.

Mr. Jekielek:

Right. In theory, gain-of-function research makes viruses more lethal, more virulent, and more deadly, so that you can figure out how to fight against them. But you’re still making them more deadly in the process. By the way, I’m very happy to see that the U. S. Senate and Senator Rand Paul just had the first major hearing on this issue. They are trying to help people understand what this stuff is, and they are bringing in some of the country’s experts. 

Mr. Gaffney:

The other use is to more efficiently kill people…

Mr. Jekielek:

Of course. 

Mr. Gaffney:

…without destroying the infrastructure. That’s a point which we might return to as well.

Mr. Jekielek:

Right. Let’s discuss this doctrine of unrestricted warfare. There were two Chinese colonels that wrote a detailed book on how to wage war against the United States using unconventional, non-military methods. 

Mr. Gaffney:

In 1999, they published this book, obviously with the permission of the Chinese Communist Party. By the way, they both went on to general officer rank. It wasn’t as though these were radical outliers who were repudiated by the party. They were laying out the plan. More to the point, they said, “We’re not strong enough to use military force at the moment, but these are the ways we can decisively conduct warfare against the United States.”

Mr. Jekielek:

Even more importantly, the vast majority of the methods they describe using financial instruments to subvert America have already been implemented.

Mr. Gaffney:

They enable the Chinese Communist Party’s program…

Mr. Jekielek:

Right. 

Mr. Gaffney:

… of unrestricted warfare.

Mr. Jekielek:

But this is the point. The proof is in the pudding. You can look at that book and say, “Hey, pretty much all of this is being done right now.

Mr. Gaffney:

It has happened.

Mr. Jekielek:

Exactly.

Mr. Gaffney:

It includes using biological warfare, which was one of the things that was identified as an unrestricted warfare technique that could be used against the United States.

Mr. Jekielek:

At the start of the pandemic there were discussions about closing the U. S. borders. There was a huge outcry from the Chinese Communist Party claiming it was racist. Since they are using this unconventional, unrestricted warfare, they know America’s soft spots, and know what buttons to push to get what they want.

Mr. Gaffney:

They wanted their people let into America so that they could, essentially, disseminate this deadly virus into our society.  It’s not as deadly as what they have in their arsenal already, to be sure, but deadly enough to have killed a million Americans up to this point, and millions more elsewhere around the world.

Mr. Jekielek:

You examine some of their methodologies in the report, which is incredibly valuable. For example, there’s an organization called the United Front, originally the United Front Work Department.

It is the way that the CCP influences Chinese communities overseas, and by extension, foreign populations overseas. There are Chinese in every country, and the CCP tries to keep a very firm rein on them through various official organizations.

That’s just one aspect. Please give me an overview.

Mr. Gaffney:

Like the Ministry of State Security, for example.

Mr. Jekielek:

Right. Exactly.

Mr. Gaffney:

They tell the overseas Chinese that their parents in China will be punished if you don’t do what we tell you to do.

Mr. Jekielek:

Right. The other side is that if you do cooperate, and if you do provide tidbits of information, you’ll get benefits. If you don’t provide those nuggets, why aren’t you providing those nuggets. This is how the CCP does its intelligence gathering, with these millions of small nuggets of information that are then assembled.

Mr. Gaffney:

You may be punished.

Mr. Jekielek:

Exactly.

Mr. Gaffney:

You may be physically threatened. In fact, if you really are considered to be a problem in this country, they will reach out and touch you. But, as you know, the easier way to do this is simply to coerce the family members who are still back in the homeland.

Mr. Jekielek:

Please tell me a little bit more about this. The United Front is on my mind, because I keep seeing its influence in various forms.

To give another example, with the Confucius Institutes, ostensibly, many of them have shut down. That was a successful effort on our part, but it turns out they were just renamed and the money was funneled in a slightly different way. But the money is still there and that influence still exists in the U.S. much more broadly than we even realized.

Mr. Gaffney:

We just did a webinar, and I would really recommend it to your viewers as a resource. It’s on our website, The Committee on the Present Danger of China; https://presentdangerchina.org/                 

We do two different series of two weekly webinars. The first was one started about three months ago, which details this unrestricted warfare, the various forms it is taking, how it is being weaponized, and the effects it is having on our country. It’s powerful. It’s chilling really, especially taken all together.

The other series is USA Betrayed. It looks at the help that Americans are giving to the Chinese in waging this warfare against us.

The most recent one was on the Confucius Institutes, as it happens, because of the help that academia is giving to China. You’re absolutely right, and I had no idea. Of the 114 Confucius Institutes, 108 of them had been closed, thanks in no small measure to our friend, Rachelle Peterson, and the work of the National Association of Scholars.

But they’re all back, maybe not all of them, but many of them are back. They have just rebranded them. They have the same objective, which is influence, recruitment, subversion, and essentially, control of these campuses. We talked about how the curriculum is being dictated, and the people doing the teaching of the curriculum are being controlled. The people visiting the campus as speakers are being chosen by the Chinese Communist Party. This is insane.

By the way, there is absolutely no reciprocity. We have no such opportunities to propagandize, or do anything else, or even just educate people in China.

Mr. Jekielek:

Please tell me more about of these instruments that the CCP uses both internally and globally.

Mr. Gaffney:

You touched on the most important one, with the arguable exception of the biological warfare which has already killed a million Americans. Their focus on recruiting what they call, “the old friends on Wall Street,” has been incalculably important to the Chinese Communist Party’s whole agenda. That has bankrolled China’s unrestricted warfare against us.

You can go through a whole litany of horribles that they’re up to, like the Belt and Road Initiative. They’re making these payday loans that are in fact colonizing something like 145 countries around the world. They pay for infrastructure to be built with their financing, which then winds up being something like payday loans.

Mr. Jekielek:

With loans that will never be paid back?

Mr. Gaffney:

With loans that can’t be paid back.

Mr. Jekielek:

And which default to ownership by the CCP.

Mr. Gaffney:

That means foreclosure on the assets, and then you now have a colonial presence in that country, and, as you say, power options worldwide.

A good part of that money, 3 to 6 trillion dollars, has been moved by their old friends on Wall Street. Larry Fink at BlackRock is a prime mover in this. The money comes from the American investing public; pension funds, 401k plans, exchange-traded funds, index funds, mutual funds and the like, all from America. The money goes to our mortal enemy, the Chinese Communist Party. This is ongoing.

Larry Fink, not so long ago, said we ought to triple the amount of investment we’re making in China, which essentially means the United Front, the Ministry of State Security, the Chinese Communist Party, or the People’s Liberation Army. Whoever you want to say is running this thing, this enables them to try to destroy our country, and it has to stop.

Mr. Jekielek:

There is another element that many people don’t realize. They imagine that money is kind of interchangeable. But the thing is, once that money goes into China, that money is very, very hard to get out. In fact, when people try, it’s almost impossible. So, the profits exist on paper for the companies that are doing the investing, but they actually don’t have it in the bank.

Mr. Gaffney:

They certainly don’t have actual shares in the companies they’re investing in. Some of these companies have actually been sanctioned by the United States government, because they are directly involved in the Chinese military build-up. Some are sanctioned because they are involved in the humanitarian abominations inflicted by the Chinese Communist Party, such as genocide and organ harvesting and all the rest.

But even if these companies are sanctioned by our government, it’s still possible to invest in them. The problem is you can’t actually own a piece of the company, for whatever that’s worth. You get a share in some virtual entity in the Cayman Islands, which gives you no recourse at all when the Chinese simply say, “Sorry. You’ve just lost your money. We’ve just closed that company,” or, “We’ve just turned it into something else.” And that’s nothing compared to what is coming in the future.

If we actually go to war with China, those 3 to $6 trillion will be written off. It’s just gone. The people who will be affected will not be Larry Fink or Ray Dalio or Steve Schwarzman, or any of those other masters of the universe on Wall Street. It will be everyday Americans, the American pensioners.

If you can believe this, now they’ve gotten their mitts on federal government employees, military as well as civilian. They’re moving their money into companies that are building weapons systems which will kill men and women in uniform. Wall Street sees no problem with this. They say, “As long as it’s not illegal, we will continue to do it.”

What about betraying your country? What about contributing to its destruction? Do you have no interest in that? Do you have no concerns? Do you have no responsibility to avoid that? I think they do. If they don’t, and if they persist in this, it is treason, for God’s sake. It ought to be treated as such.

Mr. Jekielek:

The CCP certainly knew how to take advantage of our greed.

Mr. Gaffney:

We make no secret of our greed. It’s just a question of playing to those human frailties, and they do it systematically. They have made it into an industrial operation. Peter Schweizer’s book, “Red-Handed: How American Elites Get Rich Helping China,” is just the latest documentation of how China has perfected the practice of what they call elite capture.

Sadly, it’s not just Wall street. It’s not even just the business sector, because there’s a lot of people importing goods from China that help prop up the regime. It’s academia, as we said. It’s the patrons of the Confucius Institutes who like all that extra money coming in for all those students, the 300,000 plus that are paying full freight at our universities. That matters to these colleges. And it matters to Hollywood and the media.

One of the reasons the Epoch Times is the best media outfit in America today is because most of the rest have been corrupted by the Chinese Communist Party. They are being paid to put CCP propaganda in their newspapers or in their outlets.

Mr. Jekielek:

In many cases officially.

Mr. Gaffney:

Absolutely.

Mr. Jekielek:

But also, there are these tools. It was the same thing in the Soviet Union. You had to make some agreements. In order to report on the regime, you had to play along, or they just wouldn’t let you in. So, what could you do?

Mr. Gaffney:

It’s the same with academia, and with visas and so on. Here’s the thing. You made a comparison to the Soviet Union. I began talking about the Soviet threat and what Reagan did in response. It was such a departure from what had been done by Nixon, Ford, and Carter. They wanted to make the best deal with them that they possibly could, because they saw them as the rising power. Kissinger, and Graham Allison and the like claimed that we had no choice but to submit.

The Soviets were pikers compared to the Chinese Communist Party. I was there in the Pentagon during the height of the Cold War. My job was dealing with the Soviet nuclear threat, and it was nothing compared to what we now face in terms of the comprehensive threat, nuclear among others, from the Chinese Communist Party. Yet, we have persisted in this delusion that they’re not at war with us, that we can continue to do business with them, we can engage with them, we can prop them up, we can enrich them, we can make them more powerful, and we can make them more dangerous, without any danger to ourselves. It is madness.

That’s where Team B3 comes in. What we’re trying to do with this report now is not to see it left unread on dusty shelves all over Washington, but rather to give it a living legacy with what we call, “the brief.” That’s a term you’re familiar with, and it’s not terribly complicated. It is just is a rendering of the people that we are now dealing with who treat their own people horribly in every imaginable way. I’m not just talking about the Uyghurs or the Tibetans or the others that they consider to be inferior races. I’m talking about what they do to the Han Chinese by the millions.

As you know, they have killed at least 100 million human beings out of the womb, and they claim to have killed 400 million still in the womb. In the whole course of human history, this is unprecedented in terms of man’s inhumanity to man. It’s a tell. I know we agree feverishly about this.

The non-Chinese, including the Americans, that they’re doing business with should not be under any illusion. If they succeed in securing victory over us and enslave us, do we have really any illusion that they will treat us better than they treat their own people?

Mr. Jekielek:

Generally, the world agrees at this point that there’s at least one genocide going on, which is the deliberate eradication of a group of people. The CCP is engaged in this practice. I would say there’s at least three genocides going on.

Mr. Gaffney:

Our government under both Republican and Democratic administrations has officially said that about the Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.

Mr. Jekielek:

Exactly. So, why do people think that while conducting financial business with China that the ethics of the regime will be different?

Mr. Gaffney:

The people who are doing business with China, and in the process enriching and propping them up and enabling and empowering them, are making a very cynical calculation that they personally will be enriched for whatever time they’re doing that work. Unfortunately, the Chinese play that game. They do enrich those who play along.

To your question about enslaving, they also use increasingly coercive techniques to make you do things that you don’t want to do, like selling your proprietary seed corn technology to them, for example, and ultimately putting your company out of business once they have supplanted you.

Mr. Jekielek:

I just saw a headline this morning that Apple will no longer label its products as made in Taiwan, for fear of offending China.

Mr. Gaffney:

They are easily offended.

Mr. Jekielek:

They are easily offended, but their behavior is offensive.

Mr. Gaffney:

It’s called kowtowing, as you know. It’s the ancient tradition of prostrating yourself before the empire.

The Chinese Communist Party is using cultural-Marxism, not class warfare but race warfare. They do it through their United Front work department operations with allies like Black Lives Matter, and academics at Harvard and elsewhere, who are promoting critical race theory. Certainly, the most racist regime in the world today is in China. It’s Han supremacism.

They’re exhibiting racism towards the black people that they’re now colonizing in Africa, for example. More and more Africans are being, yes, enslaved by them.

Mr. Jekielek:

I’m often surprised by how few people make the connection. Again, the eradication of an ethnic group of people is the most extreme form of racism that exists.

Mr. Gaffney:

Absolutely.

Mr. Jekielek:

 In a highly bipartisan fashion, we all agree that the CCP is doing that.

Mr. Gaffney:

Where are the people who in the past rightly abhorred apartheid in South Africa, who claim that Israel is now engaged in apartheid, and who are so quick to say there’s white supremacists everywhere brutalizing blacks and Latinos?

Where are those people when you talk about Han supremacism, and the fact that people are being deprived of certain liberties, and not allowed to move about their country or have certain jobs, and are also being murdered en masse?

Mr. Jekielek:

Something I’ve come to realize, Frank, is that as human beings there’s an inherent tribalism that we are drawn to. Somehow it’s part of our nature. What the CCP does is play on the worst elements of that.

Regarding this Han supremacy, I work with many Chinese and I can tell you that I don’t encounter it among the people I work with. I don’t encounter it. But once I was running a youth exchange program, and a Chinese girl basically cried when she found out that she would have a black counterpart in the program, and it was crushing to her. We had to figure out how to deal with this bizarre cultural situation. This is precisely because of promoting the worst aspects of human nature and bringing them out. This is something that disturbs me.

Mr. Gaffney:

We are not at war with the Chinese people themselves. The Chinese people are industrious, creative, and are highly capable. We see that in the communities that have come here. 

Having said that, we have to acknowledge the horrible reality that for 70 years this terrible party, and this totalitarian system has been using every imaginable technique to brainwash their people. They indoctrinate them, and they either penalize them or reward them for hewing to the party line.

The party line is Han supremacist and racist—culturally, ethnically, and in every other imaginable way. That’s part of building up this narrative and Chinese dream that China must rule the rest of the world. That is easier to do if you realize that everybody else is inferior, and they exist to do your work. They will be your enslaved populations in the future.

Mr. Jekielek:

We talked about repatriation a couple of years back on the show, and the necessity of the repatriation of supply chains. So many of our supply chains are connected with the Chinese Communist Party. They threatened to stop the flow of rare earth minerals, which would devastate the industries in Silicon Valley.

Mr. Gaffney:

Which they did to Japan a few years back.

Mr. Jekielek:

Exactly. I saw this video created to make fun of then President Trump. He was at the UN telling the Germans, “You’re putting yourself in a very difficult situation by becoming so dependent on Russian oil with Nord Stream 2.” They were laughing at him. It was kind of like, “Look at how silly the President looks.”

It was sent to me because obviously he was right. Anybody with half a brain could look at that and think, “Wow. This pipeline is probably a bad idea.”

Where are we now two years later with respect to these supply chains?

Mr. Gaffney:

Again, here’s a little bit of historical background. Deng Xiaoping, who I mentioned earlier in connection with the decision to have a biological warfare program with the mission of destroying the United States so it could be colonized by China Deng had a famous insight back in 1991. That is when the Soviet Union ultimately came down thanks to Ronald Reagan’s strategy. Deng said, “The Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union is over. The Soviets lost. A new Cold War has begun between the United States and China, and China will win.”

He began with that premise in mind. It is called, and you’ve talked about it a lot over the years, as have I, the “hide and bide strategy.” The Chinese were going to conceal their determination to destroy the United States under the false pretense that they just wanted to be a partner with us, and they just wanted to be a member of the international community. They wanted to enrich their people, and as they did that, they would become more integrated into the world community. A key piece of that would be having the U.S. business sector open up its technology, open up its business operations, and open up its most sensitive proprietary information. Biding their time, the Chinese would be able to destroy our industrial base, most of our supply chains, and certainly the independence that we had in virtually every area. They would then move all of those supply chains and the stuff that goes into them back into China.

This goes back to what we talked about earlier, Jan, about the business community being the reason for all this. But they were supported in doing so by our government who said, “Hey, these guys are now part of our team.”

Initially, my old boss, Scoop Jackson, was a big fan of this idea. The Chinese were the people who were going to help us defeat the Soviet Union. Well, not so, as it happened. This is my point about why these guys have become vastly more dangerous than the Soviets ever were. Deng, Xi’s predecessor, understood that by getting the United States completely dependent upon China, they would have a degree of resilience against the kind of punishment that Reagan meted out to the Soviets, which ultimately resulted in their destruction.

That engagement would, in short, be a guarantee that at least until such time as the Chinese were able to destroy us, we would be unable and certainly unwilling to contemplate destroying them.

To this point, supply chain dependencies are as persistent today as they have ever been, even though what we have been witnessing of late is the Chinese have been reducing what’s flowing into those supply chains.

I just had a conversation with our friend, Gordon Chang. He talked about the fact that this is something that they are doing to make themselves more independent—food, energy, medicines, personal protective equipment, rare earth minerals, steel, everything you need for war—they are now hoarding and husbanding and making less and less available to the rest of the world.

Yet, despite Donald Trump’s best efforts, and Peter Navarro’s concerted efforts to begin on-shoring those supply chains again, we have done precious little of it. We are still at the mercy of the Chinese. You mentioned medicines.  For God’s sake, we don’t manufacture penicillin in this country, to say nothing of a lot of other elements of medicines on which we critically depend.

It’s hard to get your head around the horribles that could flow from the kind of dependencies that we continue to have, and the vulnerabilities that arise from it. It’s not as though you have to conjure this up or interpret it. It’s all there in black and white as the doctrine of the Chinese Communist Party.

Mr. Jekielek:

In short, in your book do you actually provide some solutions to this very difficult scenario.  

Mr. Gaffney:

This book is now available for free as a downloadable pdf at; ccpatwar.com. A key part of it is, “What do we do about this war?” It’s a series of recommendations which are now part and parcel of the brief, which we are trying to put in front of as many candidates for elective office as possible over the next three months. For the next three months all of those candidates have to profess they’re interested in what you’re concerned about. After November, not so much, but for the next three months it matters.

So, we need the help of your audience in getting this brief in front of as many of them as possible. They can out how to do that at the same website; ccpatwar.com.

We have six recommendations. I won’t give you all of them, but the basic point is we need to understand the nature of this enemy. It is a transnational organization, and it must be treated as such. We need to disengage from this mortal enemy. The supply chain dependency is absolutely a formula for our destruction, unquestionably.

We need to rebuild our military, which at the moment is neither situated nor capable of dealing with the threat of the Chinese military. As a matter of the utmost urgency, this has to be remedied. We need to immediately deal with this threat to Taiwan.

We need to cut off the most serious of our self-inflicted vulnerabilities, such as the financing that we are providing to the Chinese Communist Party that is enabling all of this.

There are about 160 million Americans who have money in the U.S. capital markets today. They must say to their financial managers, their pension fund managers, and the people who are handling their investments, “I don’t want my money invested in Chinese Communist Party companies. Period. Get it out of there.” Do it while you still can. As you say, it’s not that easy. But to the extent one can, make your investments patriotically.

A colleague of mine, Kevin Freeman, has a training program. If your financial manager can’t figure out how to do this, or doesn’t think it’s advisable, please go to nsic.org to find a training program that can either help you get them equipped to give you this kind of assistance, or get you a different financial manager who will.

Mr. Jekielek:

Frank Gaffney, it has been such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Mr. Gaffney:

The pleasure is truly mine. Thank you.

Mr. Jekielek:

Thank you all for joining Frank Gaffney and I on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.

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