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Dr. David Jeremiah: Why Socialism Is Anti-Family and Anti-Faith

“The nuclear family is an enemy to socialism,” says Dr. David Jeremiah. “Their whole goal … is to get control of the children.”

In this episode, we sit down with Jeremiah, founder and host of Turning Point for God and senior pastor of the Shadow Mountain Community Church. He’s the author of “Where Do We Go From Here?” We discuss our current political moment, from vaccine mandates to globalism to cancel culture.

“You cannot allow yourself to live by lies. You may not be able to champion the truth, but you can refuse to live by lies,” he says.


Jan Jekielek: Dr. David Jeremiah, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Dr. David Jeremiah: Well thank you for having me, I’m really honored to be with you.

Mr. Jekielek: Dr. Jeremiah, I took a look at your recent book, “Where Do We Go From Here?” I’m actually going to read a little bit right from it because it immediately caught my attention and prompted trying to set up this interview. This is what you wrote, “A deadly virus is quietly spreading throughout our nation, it is far more lethal than COVID-19, and most Americans are totally unaware of the threat that it poses to our freedom and way of life.”

Dr. Jeremiah: I was talking about socialism.

Mr. Jekielek: Yes.

Dr. Jeremiah: And it’s true. I had some knowledge of it when I started to work on this project, but I actually studied socialism for a whole year. I read everything I could find, went back and went through the history of it, how it got started, and did an awful lot of work on Marx, and what kind of a person he was.

I read a book called “The Devil and Karl Marx” that was really scary. This is a very frightening thing that’s happening in our country today, and as you mentioned, as I wrote, most people just don’t even know it.

Mr. Jekielek: Well, and this is an interesting question. We’re seeing this illiberal ideology, some people call it wokeism. There’s a cancel culture element developing, but as I also learned over the last several years of educating myself, this also does have roots in Marxism.

Dr. Jeremiah: Yes, it does. In fact, just about every chapter in this book in some way or another goes back to things that I learned about socialism that are just a part of the overall ideology of the whole thing. Now what is so amazing to me is because I’ve sensitized my mind and heart to all of this, every day on the news I see vivid examples of what’s happening, and how it’s affecting us as a nation.

Mr. Jekielek: What do you think is the most important thing that people need to know that they don’t understand?

Dr. Jeremiah: First of all, obviously since I am a pastor, many people are surprised to discover that socialism is anti-God. It is not. Socialists don’t believe that there is no God. They’re not atheists, they’re anti-God. In fact, Karl Marx was not anti-God, he was a cheerleader for the devil, and even the people that were close to him felt like he was demon possessed. He came from a very dark place, and I wrote one place in the book, “He was the hideous man and socialism became the full bloom of him as a person.”

Mr. Jekielek: That is something that a lot of people haven’t heard about him, and you can read it in some of his poetry, for example. It’s fascinating.

Dr. Jeremiah: Well yeah, he said in one place that he was born to God and now he knows he was chosen for hell. He considered himself totally beyond any hope of redemption, and so lived his life with a careless evil that is not producible in most other people that I’ve read.

Mr. Jekielek: And this is very interesting, I hadn’t heard it framed this way. You’re saying that it’s explicitly, so Marx, okay we can agree that Marx was anti-God, but of course socialism has evolved since then, and so forth, but you’re saying that socialism is anti-God as we speak?

Dr. Jeremiah: Yeah, one of his key phrases was to, “Wipe God out of heaven and capitalists off the earth,” that was his twofold program. And it’s really scary to me because I speak in colleges, I just got done speaking at a big university back east, and there’s a lot of university students who were captivated by this. Some of the statistics I cite in this book really bear that out, that young people between 18 and 25, I think 60 some percent of them think socialism is cool, it’s okay.

More than anything else because of all the free stuff they get promised in the process. But when they understand the roots of socialism, it makes them stop and think. I wonder if the people who are champions of socialism really understand the poisonous foundation upon which it was founded. Karl Marx was a wicked man, he was a terrible person.

Mr. Jekielek: I want to go back to this today. There’s a lot of these young folks, like you said, I think it’s something like 60 percent of people, teenagers and so forth, think this would be a good way to live.

Dr. Jeremiah: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mr. Jekielek: But they’re not necessarily explicitly anti-God. Do people know what they’re really espousing?

Dr. Jeremiah: No, and it is pretty profound when you say to a young person. You can’t be a practicing Christian and a socialist because they’re oil and water, they don’t mix. How could you be an anti-God Christian? There’s no such thing. And then sometimes they like to cite passages in the Bible, like in the Book of Acts where they all held things together, but that wasn’t socialism, that was just a bunch of Christians sharing what they had during a tough time.

So there is no biblical basis whatsoever for socialism, either in the Old Testament or in the New Testament. People who claim that there is just haven’t studied it. It’s not true, because socialism is totally at the opposite end of the spectrum from what it means to be a God fearing person. There’s no room for God in socialism. In fact, they believe the church is the opium of the masses, because if the church is in a person’s life, it takes away from the loyalty that they demand from their adherents.

Mr. Jekielek: So in your book, I think the first chapter is about socialism, there’s elements of this throughout, actually. But you talk quite a bit about, you call it cancel culture, right?

Dr. Jeremiah: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mr. Jekielek: But you see this as something, like an extension of that system.

Dr. Jeremiah: Yes, because one of the key ingredients of socialism, Jan, is that it is totalitarianism. We would say it today, “My way or the highway.” There’s only one viewpoint, there’s no room for any other viewpoint. Socialism can’t stand the light of contrary discussion, because it doesn’t have any ground to stand on. And so the way they deal with that is they just black out everything other than their own view. And we’re seeing that in our country today.

I remember one night I was working on this project, and I watched something on television where, you may have remembered this, there was a school, I think it was in Virginia, where they were going to disavow all of the holidays; they were going to take all the names of the holidays off and just call them student vacations, or something.

And they had a volatile parents meeting, and a parent got up to disagree, and the moderator slammed his fist on the table and said, “This is not a debate.” And the meeting was done.

That is as clear an illustration as I can see, if there’s no room for discussion, if there’s no room for disagreement, if there’s no room for going back and forth and trying to understand each other, you’ve lost society altogether. What you have is a dictatorship, and totalitarianism is a building block of socialism that is very much a part of the culture cancer. Cancer is a good word for it, the culture of canceling everything that you don’t agree with.

Mr. Jekielek: So what do you think about that? That a school board chair, or a member basically saying, “Sorry, there’s no debate, parents.” What do you think about that?

Dr. Jeremiah: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, when he left Russia, after he’d been there and in the Gulag, before he left he gave a speech, and the speech was titled Live Not By Lies. The first point in his speech was, “You cannot allow yourself to live by lies. You may not be able to champion the truth, but you can refuse to live by lies.”

That’s what I think has to happen among American people. They can’t allow themselves to go to a board meeting where there is no truth because the truth has been lost in the woke culture of the leadership. They cannot do that, they have to stand up for the truth. And the truth is there somewhere, it is not just his idea, the chairman is being programmed by the ideology of socialism. If there’s no way to push back on that, you’ve lost the game already.

So cancel culture is a wicked thing. Interestingly enough, I gave a speech about that at this university back east, and there was a railing down in front. There were 13,000 kids in this event, and this girl came down and she was in tears, and she said, “My dad got canceled last week.” I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “He’s a very well known surgeon here in this area, and my mom is very strong evangelical and she loves God, and she posted some very positive things about Jesus on her website, and his partner saw it, and they got together and decided they didn’t want him in their group anymore and they fired him.

They just said, ‘We don’t need this religion stuff here, we don’t need this.’ And so they just got together and disavowed their relationship with him.” She was in tears, her sister came up later and they were just saying, “We’re going to get through this, but don’t tell me there isn’t such a thing as cancel culture, my daddy got canceled.”

And that’s happening across, people are really reticent to put anything in writing, to say anything that could get them in trouble. I tell the kids in our school all the time, you may think it’s fun to mess around on your internet sites, and all of that, but just remember that stuff doesn’t ever go away, and don’t put anything in there you don’t want to come back and get in trouble for later. It’s a whole different world.

Mr. Jekielek: But wait, so you’re telling me that this surgeon basically got canceled out of the partnership he had.

Dr. Jeremiah: Yeah.

Mr. Jekielek: Because his wife, in a personal capacity, posted something religious?

Dr. Jeremiah: Exactly, they were so opposed to anything religious, and so opposed to Christianity, that they were embarrassed, and they didn’t want anything to do with him. She had gotten some positive feedback by it, obviously they had their two girls in a Christian university.

So I don’t know all the details behind it, but it was just interesting to me that immediately after I finished speaking and I gave the message on socialism that’s in this book, she came up and told me that. And I’ve heard that from many people, and I know numerous people who have stood up for what they believe, not necessarily religious things, and still, because they don’t follow the party line, and they’re not totalitarian, they’re gone.

Mr. Jekielek: This is what I was going to say, it’s not just Christians, not by a long shot.

Dr. Jeremiah: No, sir. I live in that world, so those are the examples that I know of, but I also know it’s happening to a lot of people and it’s certainly not a part of American culture and history. It’s not what I remember growing up with at all.

Mr. Jekielek: For America, freedom of speech, I mean, there’s a reason it’s the first amendment, it’s foundational to everything. Even the really unfortunate stuff, and it took me a while to understand that. My father-in-law is a Holocaust survivor, I can’t stand Holocaust denial. I’ve come to realize that the moment you start basically deleting something based on, and you say, well, you just can’t say these things ever, that is a line that basically takes you to be able to delete almost anything.

Dr. Jeremiah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, and isn’t it interesting that during all this time when we’re canceling doctors, ideology from Iran, and other places, is allowed freedom in all of our social media sites. Things are being canceled that are silly while all of this other stuff is allowed to happen.

Mr. Jekielek: Right, I think I remember that juxtaposition, that Ayatollah Khomeini has a Twitter account, President Trump gets canceled in a Twitter account. How bizarre is that?

Dr. Jeremiah: Yeah.

Mr. Jekielek: So what is around this cancel culture? You’re asking people basically to at least not live by lies according to Solzhenitsyn’s mantra, which I love that was actually in the book, it’s a favorite line of mine, because not everyone is ready to take the position, that I’m going to go out and-

Dr. Jeremiah: No, nobody’s going to stand. You and I may not even be comfortable going out in the marketplace and standing out there with a bullhorn and yelling about what we believe, but we all can refuse to live by lies, we don’t have to do that. And when we see that we’re being programmed by something that we know is not true, we have to walk away, because if you allow that to take over in your life, your life’s pretty much over.

Mr. Jekielek: This is so foundational. I love that we’re talking about this because that is the sense I get, in so many different walks of life, that the demand is increasingly that you accept, or at least verbalize, something which, in front of your very eyes is just patently untrue, but if you say that, you could get in trouble.

Dr. Jeremiah: There is nothing that is really true that should be afraid of challenge, because I personally believe that all truth is God’s truth, that truth begins with God. And Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life,” and so if it’s true, it shouldn’t be an issue for it to be challenged, because truth will win, no matter what the challenge is.

But if it’s not true, then you can. So all the stuff that’s going on right now is interesting to me in light of that discussion, because most of it’s not true—most of it is just lies

Mr. Jekielek: And it’s very interesting, my friend who was on this show many months ago, Peter Boghossian, lecturer from Portland State, he recently quit.

Dr. Jeremiah: Oh yeah, you told me about him.

Mr. Jekielek: Yeah, so he says, he calls himself an atheist, and he says, “I have much more in common with the evangelical Christian who believes that I have the right to believe, or think what I want to think.” And I believe that he has the right to think what he wants to think, then with all these people that believe you have to think this way.

Dr. Jeremiah: And you know what, that’s the way it used to be. That’s what I was referring to earlier. When I was growing up and going to college, you had that mutual respect for each other. I actually did an interview one time on Fox, and it was back when Hannity had his partner, Sean Hannity. I can’t remember his name right now, but he was the other guy, he was the alternative voice. Hannity was the positive Republican, he was the Democrat, and they used to play off each other.

And I went on that show one time, it was Christmas time, and this man went off on me. I guess he knew I was coming, and he just went off on me. And I really, I could feel myself asking God in my heart, help me to be kind to this man. And I got done, I said, “You know what? This has really been fun, and obviously we just have to agree that we don’t agree.”

And that was the way it was, but that doesn’t work anymore. You can’t go there and do that anymore unless you’re in an environment where it’s positive, where the vibrations are not where they are most of the place in the news industry.

Mr. Jekielek: Right. Something that I found interesting in the book, you cite a number of people that actually have been interviewees on this show, American Thought Leaders. For example, Iván Simonovis is actually one of my favorite interviews that I’ve done, you actually start the book with him.

Dr. Jeremiah: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mr. Jekielek: So of course he escaped from Venezuela, and I don’t know if theatrical is the right word, but with a ton of intrigue and difficulty, and almost didn’t make it.

Dr. Jeremiah: And got chased all over Venezuela until he got onto a boat in the Caribbean and finally got here to America.

Mr. Jekielek: Yeah.

Dr. Jeremiah: I told that story primarily because of the interest factor, but also because Venezuela is a perfect picture of where we’re headed if we don’t stop this that’s happening right now. It’s amazing to realize just in our lifetime, not long ago, Venezuela was the richest country in that part of the world. People had the same standard of living that we do, and then when Hugo Chavez became the head and began to socialize it. He died and Maduro came along.

Today, I think I even mention this in the book—the average Venezuelan makes $1 a day. They don’t have enough to eat. Their country has unraveled totally. That’s an interesting thing because I can’t find one good story about socialism. In all the reading I did and all the stuff I studied, everybody talks about it. I can’t find one good story that ends right, because socialism is evil, and it takes people down. It doesn’t lift them up.

Mr. Jekielek: And of course it’s important to note that Hugo Chavez was elected.

Dr. Jeremiah: Yes, he got elected, and then when the oil industry collapsed, and all of that, he was… I really never did find out who influenced him to become what he became, because he wasn’t that way when he started. But he became more and more progressively liberal and socialist, and Maduro was worse than he was—is worse than he is.

Mr. Jekielek: Right. You do go a field, I guess, out of America in what you describe, and you talk a bit about globalism, which you see as another threat area. And this is interesting because globalization is something that was very much promoted in the American psyche for decades— globalization and free trade. This was almost an enviable… I have a friend who wrote a book about this, almost called Free Trade or Religion, like you couldn’t go against the concept of free trade.

Dr. Jeremiah: George Bush the first was one of the big promoters of it. I read a lot of things that he wrote, and he was a full fledged promoter of globalism. And most people don’t know that because he was a Republican. But I have to tell you honestly that I started with that because of my understanding of prophecy and the New Testament, and the fact that at the end of time, according to the prophets, there’s going to be a coalition of the governments. And there will be one leader who will galvanize all these governments together.

And of course from my perspective understanding the prophecy, there will be a war, and we know that as the war of Armageddon, that will take place between Jesus Christ and the armies of heaven and this galvanized globalization under the antichrist, that’s what the scripture teaches.

So when I see globalism happening, from my perspective, I see that it’s fulfilling that prophecy that’s in the scripture. And the byline of this book is how the prophecies of the future help us understand the problems of today.

As I see globalism growing and being promoted, and more and more currencies they’re talking about, mine will have one currency, and during COVID, if we just had one guy who was helping us, all of that is just a part of what I’ve understood from the Bible having studied it all these years. I’m a little prophecy guru, I guess.

And in the Bible, in the chapter on globalism I said the first globalist was a guy named Nimrod who built the Tower of Babel, and he thought he could bring everybody together and they were going to reach up and take God’s place. And then God reached out and confused their language, and so much for that. But ever since then, there’s always been this thought that if we can get everybody on the same page, that’s not going to happen.

Mr. Jekielek: I just want to touch on this COVID element, the coronavirus. One of the things that a lot of people are concerned with, in fact a few days ago I interviewed the director of ethics, medical ethics at UC Irvine about this topic.

There’s a change in the thinking around medicine that’s happened with respect to COVID, and this idea that it’s somehow more acceptable to compel people to undergo medical procedures, notably vaccines, something like a vaccine mandate is something that is considered reasonable by a significant portion of society as we speak, but probably wouldn’t have been 10 years ago.

Dr. Jeremiah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, I get asked that question probably as much as any. And here in San Diego, the church that I’m a part of, that I’ve been a part of for 40 years, we have a lot of military people. So many of my military friends are going through this, they have consciouses about not being vaccinated, and they’re going to lose their jobs.

I have a friend who came to see me about that and he told me that he had gotten that message from his chaplain, and I said, “Can you tell me who your chaplain is?” And I called the guy and I asked him, I told him who I was, and he knew me, and he said he respected me, and I said, “I’m trying to help your young man,” I told him, “He’s a Marine,” I said, “Is there any wiggle room here?” He said, “No sir, there’s not.” He said, “I wish I could tell you there were.” But he said, “If he doesn’t get vaccinated, he’s going to be discharged.”

I don’t know that the government has the right to do that. I understand all the vaccinations we’ve had with polio and all of that. My take on that, I’ve been vaccinated twice, I’ve had the Pfizer, and my wife has. I don’t have a problem with it, I’m glad I’ve done that, certainly at my age—one of the vulnerable people.

But I do have a really major issue with the government feeling that they have control over the bodies of all the people that live in this nation, and can tell them what they put in their bodies. I think most people are going to study this, and hopefully a lot of them will come out on the right side, if that is what it is.

Now we’re punishing everybody, all of the frontline workers who put themselves in jeopardy are losing their jobs. Many of the police who’ve already been inundated by this crazy culture that we’re in, we’re losing many of them. I don’t know where this is going to go, Jan, I don’t know where it’s going to go, but it’s not going in a good direction.

Mr. Jekielek: It’s funny, I didn’t expect we’d be talking about this today, but what I did expect we’d talk about, I also noticed that you noted someone who was one of my favorite guests on the show, is actually a woman named Xi Van Fleet, who talked about, who stood up in Loudoun County and basically said what she’s seeing happening in society reminds her of the Cultural Revolution in China.

Dr. Jeremiah: Right.

Mr. Jekielek: Right?

Dr. Jeremiah: Yeah, I have that clip, I actually had one of our tech guys get that clip for me. She was very articulate, and it was chilling. It was chilling because I was reading all this and studying it and here’s this woman who was saying, “I see happening here what I remember happened there, and it’s frightening to me,” and it should be frightening to us. So you talked to her?

Mr. Jekielek: Yeah, it’s quite a popular one of our very popular interviews, because she lived through it, and she can articulate. Because people will say, “Well, they’re not killing people in large numbers, this is nothing like the Cultural Revolution, how dare you make this comparison?” But that’s not actually what it’s about, which she talks about, for example, there was a huge, for example, indoctrination of all the educators that came with the Culture Revolution.

Dr. Jeremiah: Sure.

Mr. Jekielek: And this is what people… Go ahead.

Dr. Jeremiah: Well I was just going to say, that’s what’s happened in our country, because I know we had a college here for a number of years, we don’t have it now, it spun off into its own orbit, I used to go to accreditation meetings, and all of that. And what was happening then was the whole cold, hard liberal culture was at the top and they were driving everything in all the schools.

For instance, in the Ivy league schools, conservatives didn’t have a chance. You couldn’t go there and speak, you couldn’t have a word. So we developed all of this liberal thinking, this socialist thinking at that level, and guess what? The kids who graduated from that are now teaching high school, and they’re teaching grade school.

So it started here, and now it’s here, and it’s now in the elementary schools, as you know, to the point of just unbelief. So it is, the culture has changed rapidly, education is the thing that’s driven it.

Mr. Jekielek: And one of the silver linings is a number of people have described to me of COVID, was that parents. I just had someone like this on the show fairly recently, we’re suddenly starting to listen, over these Zoom and other calls, what is being taught.

Dr. Jeremiah: Exactly, that’s the one redeeming thing that happened in the schools during that time, because they actually got to see what their kids were learning, what they were being taught. I’ll give you a little statistic that’s an interesting thing, we now, along with what we do here, and what we do at the church, we have a school, Christian Unified School District it’s called, and we have three elementary schools in different places, and a junior high and high school.

So when COVID started we had a total, K through 12—1000 students. We added 500 students during COVID. The student body now is 1,530. We didn’t recruit, we didn’t do anything. Parents are sick of this. And at many levels, Jan, they believe the only thing that’s left to them is to withdraw, because they don’t see any way to change what’s happening in their schools.

It’s fearful, it is fearful to me, and I know a lot of parents that can’t afford private education so they’re stuck in the public sector where this is happening. I had a lot of friends say, “Oh yeah, they’ll come and pay your fees, but when COVID-19 goes away, they’ll go back to the free public education.”

We had a 97 percent re-enrollment. They don’t go back, they find out they can come here, and we don’t try to indoctrinate them, but we provide a safe environment for them to learn as they used to be able to learn when you and I were going to school. Now it has to be in a school like ours, or a charter school, or someplace where the government isn’t programming this nonsense into their lives.

Mr. Jekielek: There are people in government that, for example, are deeply against homeschooling, because they feel like that way we don’t have enough control, we meaning the Educators, so to speak, and the capital E, control over what the children are learning.

Dr. Jeremiah: Just last week in the State of Virginia the governor said, “Parents shouldn’t have anything to do with what goes on in their education, that it’s none of their business, and the government should be in charge.” So what we’ve done is we’ve taken the government and made them now in charge of everything, and now school is a part of that too, and all of the systems here in our county, and the stuff that’s going into the classroom, the gender issues, the CRT issues, all of the things have nothing to do with teaching these kids how they’re going to survive in the world that’s ahead of us.

It’s corrupting their thinking. Parents are angry about it, and it is an interesting thing to see how many people have gravitated toward us—our school. And it’s not just ours. Everywhere I go, I have a lot of friends who do what we do, they’re all the same.

Mr. Jekielek: Fascinating. I recently saw, I’ve been following this one young podcaster, so this is what he wrote, “I’m a former new atheist. Today it does seem to me that people are right to say that the decline of religion has left a vacuum that’s been filled by new religions that are worse than before—wokeness.”

And then he says other things, but then he says, “I think we have to start rethinking our modern revulsion for ‘tradition’. Hating tradition and calling it oppressive is the quintessential modern Western value, and has been for a long time. Look at the chaos and suffering it’s brought.” I thought this was an incredible insight.

Dr. Jeremiah: Yeah, what an unexpected statement from somebody who’s gone through where he is, what he claims, and it leaves them empty. It takes them to a place where they don’t want to go, and they don’t realize it on the journey, but all of a sudden they wake up one day and it doesn’t have anything to breathe into them, and they realize that. And I see that a lot.

Mr. Jekielek: You pastor to, I think your radio show starts thousands of times a day, actually, that’s what I’ve learned. Aside from your local ministry here, a lot of people are listening, and a lot of people are talking to you. Where do people, or where do you, and where does your congregation, your listeners, see things going at this point?

Dr. Jeremiah: Well, I’m not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet, so I don’t know for sure the answer to that question. I’ll give you my guess about it, where we are, understanding what I do. First of all, I think we’re now in a period of rebellion against the wokeism that we’ve talked about, there’s a pushback. I think it gets a lot more lethal than a lot of people think it is.

I believe there’s a lot more religious people, straight thinking people in America, than the people on the other side think. They think they’ve won, they think they’ve got this over, but they haven’t. What’s happening in our schools, and the pushback on the part of parents, the letter you just read to me, there’s a realization. In fact, in the chapter on socialism, there’s a whole section on the death culture of socialism.

Socialism kills. There’s a black book of communists that lists how many people were killed between 1917 and 1979; how many people died as a direct result of socialism. It’s twice as many as the number of people who died as a result of World War I and World War II. It’s so many people you can’t comprehend. Socialism kills.

What I think is happening in many respects is some of the death pains of socialism are starting to be felt, just even in our schools, for instance, the awareness of what this is doing, how it’s changing the whole educational process. I don’t think that’s going to just happen without a fierce fight on the part of people who believe as you and I do, there’s just too many of us.

And so often is the case, just a few people make all the noise. But if they make enough noise, like they have, there’s going to be a rebellion. I think it’s going to be really interesting to see what happens in these elections that are coming up, and whether or not we’re right about that.

Mr. Jekielek: I was stunned that a political, a Senate candidate would say something like, “The schools should determine the education, the parents shouldn’t have a say in this,” I was stunned by that, and I think that that’s hurting that candidate dramatically in the polls, right?

Dr. Jeremiah: Well once again, the roots of that are in socialism, because socialism wants control of the family. They can’t do what they want to do if they can’t get the mothers out of the household and get control of what happens to the children. That’s their whole goal. Their goal as a part of the whole manifesto is to get control of the children, and the nuclear family is an enemy to socialism because the strength of it doesn’t allow socialism to do what it wants to do.

So the whole goal is to dissipate it and get rid of it, get control of the schools, and tell the parents, you don’t have the right to tell us what we’re going to teach your children. In essence, the government’s going to take control of the family, and that may happen some places, but I’ll tell you what, there’s a lot of parents who are saying, no, you don’t, you’re not doing that at my school, and more so than I thought there would be.

Mr. Jekielek: Well, and what’s also interesting is that this is something that actually liberal and conservative think tanks agree on, that the people that grow up within a nuclear family type structure have a much greater likelihood of just basically, for example, beating poverty, and just most of the measures of success in life, and so forth, are strongly connected with having that structure.

Dr. Jeremiah: Well, the best thing God ever did after he created Eve was to tell them to be fruitful and multiply, and that’s what they’ve done. The family is the core of society. As the family goes, so goes society.

Mr. Jekielek: Since time immemorial, actually.

Dr. Jeremiah: Absolutely, from the very beginning. They tinker with the building blocks of our culture. It just never works. It never will.

Mr. Jekielek: What would you say is your biggest fear in this current, you described what you think is going to happen, you think that people are going to stand up against some of this illiberalism, but what is your greatest fear in all of this?

Dr. Jeremiah: Well, I have to look at that through the lens of what I do, and I think that my greatest fear in that regard would be that, as we began this discussion we talked about how so many people are unaware of the danger that this whole thing has provoked. I told somebody, it’s like smoke coming under the door, you see it a little bit, but no, it’s no big deal.

And if we don’t become aware of it, it’ll be very destructive. That’s why I wrote the book. I wanted to help people understand. One lady said to me, “You answered all the questions I didn’t know who to ask.” Well, I hope I answered a few of them, because what I wanted to do was help them see the connectedness between so many of these things that are happening to us.

For instance, I wrote about the tearing down of monuments, it’s just not a bunch of rowdy kids out there trying to have fun knocking monuments down; it’s destroy the history, completely obliterate history so you can write a new one.

That’s all a part of how this whole thing works, that’s all a part of socialism. Get rid of the things people hold dear, destroy the things that are at the core of who they are as people, their family, their church, their marriage, and then come into that vacuum and bring all of this rottenness called socialism.

And if people understand that it makes them aware, and even for me it’s been true. I have a new grid now for the news, because I’ve spent all this time studying this, I see stuff on the news, and I say to my wife, “You see that? That’s just pure socialism.”

I wouldn’t have known that before, but we need to have an awareness of this because it’s deadly—it will destroy everything. All you have to do is go to Cuba, go to Venezuela, see what’s happened in China, wherever this ideology is at work, it’s not good.

Mr. Jekielek: Well, and I’m very glad to have learned that our “Specter of Communism Is Ruling Our World” series was helpful—a helpful contribution.

Dr. Jeremiah: It was, yes. What’s it, was there five books?

Mr. Jekielek: Well, there’s three books, but it came out as a series.

Dr. Jeremiah: Okay, I read the three books, but I thought there were more, but I think I may have gotten the three major books.

Mr. Jekielek: Yeah.

Dr. Jeremiah: Very well done.

Mr. Jekielek: It’s been such a pleasure. Any final thoughts as we finish up here?

Dr. Jeremiah: I’m just very thankful for what you do, I’m very thankful for the paper, I’m an avid reader. I think, once again, in the whole world of news, here’s somebody standing up and saying, “No, here’s the whole story,” and it takes courage to do that, and my prayers are with you.

Mr. Jekielek: Well, Dr. David Jeremiah, it’s such a pleasure to have you on.

Dr. Jeremiah: You’re welcome.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

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