Radio Taiwan International Hosts Former 610 Office Agent
TAIPEI – In the middle of December, Hao Fengjun arrived in Taiwan to participate in a forum on the Nine Commentaries of the Communist Party. His arrival drew the attention of Taiwanese media. On December 19, Radio Taiwan International (RTI) interviewed Hao. During the interview, the host, Yang Xianhong, specifically focused on how the infamous '610 Office,' that Gestapo-like agency in charge of the persecution of Falun Gong in China, had continuously obeyed orders from the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) to persecute unarmed citizens.
Yang cited the former Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev as an example of a prominent communist figure whose humanity finally won out over the influence of state endorsed communist ideology. Hao Fengjun, a former member of the 610 Office, chose to defect to Australia, rather than continue to participate in the brutal torture of innocent Chinese citizens. Yang commented that there are many others in China right now who wish they had the courage to follow Hao's example.
The RTI broadcast signal is powerful enough to be picked-up pretty much everywhere in China, and Yang invited Hao to address his old friends and colleagues over the airwaves. Hao said, “I did not betray my motherland. It is the CCP that I betrayed. I hope that the Chinese police with conscience and humanity as well as the police working for the National Security Bureau can have a clear understanding of the CCP's nature, just like me. In this way, an immediate end will be brought to the CCP's totalitarianism and dictatorship.”
The following is Yang's interview with Hao.
Yang Xianhong: Today I am very happy to invite Mr. Hao Fengjun, a former 610 officer, to come to our program. Nice to see you, Mr. Hao.
Hao Fengjun: Nice to see you.
Yang: Welcome to Taiwan. Let me start by introducing Mr. Hao Fengjun, aged 32, a former officer of the “610 Office”, operating under the jurisdiction of the Tianjin Public Security Bureau. This February he fled from China to Australia in search of asylum. At the end of July he was granted a refugee protection visa and permanent residency in Australia. When fleeing his hometown, Hao brought with him numerous secret files to confirm the existence of the “610 Office” and its inner workings. Hao also confirmed the suspicion that China did construct an extensive spy network in western countries. In today's program we invite Mr. Hao to talk about the “610 Office” and the reason for his defection.
Mr. Hao, we know that the CCP set up “the Central Leadership Group for Handling Falun Gong Issues on June 10, 1999. That's why this organization is called the “610 Office.” How did you enter the “610 Office?” What kind of work did you do in the “610 Office”?
Hao: I was chosen and was transferred to the “610 Office” in 2000. Since few staff from the branch offices applied for employment in the “610 Office”, computers were used to choose the staff. I was then selected. The responsibilities of the Tianjin Public Security Bureau “610 Office' mainly include three aspects: first, Falun Gong problems; second, the so-called harmful qigongs schools labeled by the CCP; third, all the other religious groups, except Falun Gong, that were labeled as evil cult by the CCP.
Yang: In you opinion, were these groups any real threat to the CCP government?
Hao: These are just issues of personal belief. I did not see how they could pose any threat to national security.
Yang: Yes. The reason why I asked you the question is that the “610 Office”, as well as national security organizations or military organizations in other countries, must be established for the sake of something. That is, there must be a righteous reason. And the reason is that something is against national security. This reason will be used to boost everyone's morale, and all of the staff will make efforts to carry out the mission. I think the same logic works in every country. What did the CCP use to boost everyone's morale?
Hao: Regarding this issue, intelligence analysts and case investigators have the least clarity. But the information and the files we received from each level of the central government told us that Falun Gong as well as other religions posed a threat to the Chinese Communist regime. Therefore, as part of the state mechanism, we are required to carry out our orders. But in my opinion, Falun Gong practitioners, together with Christians and Catholics, are just ordinary citizens, unlike mobs, terrorists or gangsters.
Yang: When it comes to national security issues, such as terrorism and the 911 incident in New York, in which aircraft were used to attack unarmed civilians, everyone would agree that this kind of thing should never happen, and that a government should spare no effort to maintain national security. This is something reasonable. However, when unarmed civilians are simply steadfast in their religious beliefs, such as in Christianity, Catholicism and Falun Gong, no other country in the world would dream of attacking them for it. People in most countries are given the freedom to hold activities freely, providing that they are of harm to no one. Why is it that China seems to consider these activities as threatening?
Because this is my first time to interview a person with the status of a national security officer like yourself, I'd like to ask you how the Chinese Communist regime persuaded their national security officers to “bully,” perhaps I should say “deal with,” these innocent and unarmed citizens. Their supposed crime is their beliefs—what they think in their minds. Can the Chinese Communist regime really persuade them differently?
Hao: We have been brainwashed by the CCP culture since we were small. All the political education we studied in school was nothing more than Marxism, Mao Zedong thought and other stuff like these—we were required to recite these doctrines over and over in school. As political education was a main subject in school, these thoughts were instilled at a very young age. As I mentioned to the media earlier, not only does the Chinese Communist regime lie to the western world, democratic nations and its people, but it also conceals the truth from people like myself who are involved in its national security machine. I didn't come to realize the complete truth of this until I arrived in Australia.
Yang: Well, judging from your process, you seemed to have this idea long ago. As you wanted to flee from China, you then planned for it. When you were taking action, there should have been some conflicts in your mind. You might have had thoughts that you were doing the wrong thing at work?
Hao: Yes, exactly!
Yang: Do you think others who work for the state machine maintain their steadfast belief in the CCP? Could they be brainwashed so thoroughly?
Hao: No. The way I see it, almost all of those who had business contact with me and my colleagues, especially government officials, possess dual personalities, which may not be known to people in Taiwan since they have less contact with mainlanders. They seem to be conscientious and serious at work, as if they were participating in political struggle. Yet, on the other hand, after work, they allow their humanity to surface once more, expressing their genuine feelings. Thereby, their joy, anger, sorrow and happiness would be manifested again. That's it!
Yang: They may feel uneasy about what they have done in the daytime, so after work they may examine themselves at home in the evening?
Hao: The CCP's interest is the ultimate concern at meetings, but after meeting nobody carries this sentiment into their private lives.
Yang: What you mentioned reminded me of something that happened in the 1980s, when Mikhail Gorbachev was still head of the Soviet Union. This same man later caused the collapse of the soviet communist regime. Afterwards, everybody talked about him. After reading his biography, I found that he was faced with the same problem that many now face in China. He didn't trust the KGB, but as head of the Soviet Union, he had to deal with it every day. Therefore after going home and closing the door, he listened to Mahler's Fifth Symphony along with his wife late at night every day. He made use of this period of time to purify himself and seek self-salvation.
It was very difficult for him, but eventually his humanity won out over his belief in the state machine; at which point he rebelled against the system. During the process, Gorbachev was harshly criticized by his contemporaries within Soviet circles. In following his conscience and his human nature, Gorbachev won the respect of the world community.
Today, you have fled from China, but I think that you are not alone. In reality, you are a representative of the many others who would do the same if they had the courage. I believe that many of your former colleagues and old friends are probably listening to our program today. In fact, some of them have probably been assigned to monitor its content and are listening very carefully to everything we say. Do you have anything to tell them after being away from China for a good while?
Hao: When I was living and working in mainland China there were many things occurred around the country that I, including my colleagues, did not really understand. Take Falun Gong for example. In 2001, 36 Western Falun Gong practitioners went to Tiananmen Square to raise a banner calling for an end to their persecution. The order we received at the time was that Falun Gong was spending enormous amounts of money to hire Westerners to come protest at Tiananmen Square. After I got to Australia, I happened to meet one of the practitioners that had been at Tiananmen Square at that time. I asked him when he began practicing Falun Gong. He told me that he had been practicing since 1996. Not long ago, I went to Europe, where I came across a female French Falun Gong practitioner who was also at Tiananmen Square in 2001. She started to practice in 1998.
This proves that the CCP was lying to us. It knew that the Falun Gong practitioners at Tiananmen Square in 2001 were all genuine. They lied to us to get us to do their dirty work.
I just have one thing to say to those listening in mainland China: I didn't betray my country, I only betrayed the CCP. When I was in China I had a reputation for being an excellent police officer, and I can be proud of that. I have chosen to live by my principles and to uphold the true responsibilities of my vocation. As a police officer, my responsibility is to arrest people who commit crimes and to protect the public. It is not my job to persecute innocent people.
Yang: That is just doing your job.
Hao: Exactly. It is doing my duty. So, I choose to come out. It is to say that no matter what I did in the past, good or not, I can recognize the nature of the CCP. I can walk away from it. I hope the Chinese police and national security police who have consciences, human nature and humanity can recognize the nature of the CCP and end this despotism of one party.
Since I know they can hear me, I also want to tell them not to harass or interfere with my family again, who still living in mainland China. They should know that if they continue to do so, I guarantee that the world will see the more than 200 top-secret documents I have on hand.
Spies in Taiwan
Yang: On that note, I was wondering if you could comment on the spy network in Xi'an City of China mentioned by Chen Yonglin—the Chinese diplomatic official who also defected to Australia. Do you know if the CCP also has a spy ring in Taiwan?
Hao: I don't have much in-depth knowledge of the spy network in Taiwan because I was in charge of religious surveilance and only analyzed information from North America, Australia and New Zealand. The overseas spy networks you mentioned are classified as spies in other countries but in China they are called secret forces. How many spies in Australia alone did diplomat Chen Yonglin expose after he defected? The documents I've seen, together with those I took with me, all provide evidences that spies do exist and they are monitoring both Falun Gong adherents and members of other religions in Australia. Some Westerners in Australia are under watch along with, of course, Chinese in the U.S. and Canada. The secret forces we are talking about aren't like 007 in the James Bond movies. They mainly consist of infiltrators, friends, acquaintances, and of course some senior secret agents.
I have definitely seen some information from Taiwan about monitoring local residents.
The Chinese Communist Regime also does things like inciting defection among Taiwanese businessmen or monitoring them. When they return to Taiwan, we bribe and coerce them into collecting information—on my part it was all about religion. However, some agents were not under my supervision so I don't know their true names. We usually have a code name for them. I think they have gone into hiding in Taiwan for anywhere between a few years to a dozen years. I saw archives about long-term spies in Taiwan who work for the Chinese Communist Regime. Now their main interest is in Falun Gong, which the Communist Regime treats as the primary force disrupting its stability. All the overseas spies are involved in collecting information about Falun Gong.
Yang: You have a lot of different kind of information in your documents. Besides those regarding the persecution of Falun Gong, we saw some about the tortures of dissidents in China. Can you please comment on this?
Hao: The dissidents in China mainly include pro-democracy activists, members of other religions, and advocates for the independence of Tibet or Xinjiang. Some of them are under surveillance during their conversations and telephone calls. The department responsible for political cases is supervising all these spy activities. The 610 Office under State Security Bureau is also administered by that department too.
Yang: What's your impression about Taiwan?
Hao: Taiwan should be called Treasure Island. Even though I was just there for a short time, I felt that the Taiwanese are very honest and unsophisticated. Taiwan is a beautiful place and much cleaner than mainland China. One thing that made an impression on me is its democratic atmosphere. I get a strong sense of it not only from the media but also from the way people talk. Not long ago, I saw on television a speech the U.S. President Bush made in Kyoto. In it he hoped that the Chinese Communist Regime would follow Taiwan's example and establish a democracy, even though they have had one for just a short period. In watching them, I saw that the Taiwanese truly love democracy. I feel encouraged by this kind of atmosphere. I hope that one day mainland China could be like Taiwan.
Yang: It's very nice to see you in Taiwan and enjoy your time here. I believe many people are looking forward to taking to you. (Turning to the audience) Let's thank Mr. Hao Fengjun. Thank you all and see you tomorrow.