Zhao Ziyang, former CCP General Secretary died on the morning of January 17, 2005. The Epoch Times
reporter Xin Fei, interviewed renowned researcher Mr. Su Shaozhi on the evening of January 17th, Eastern Standard Time. Su Shaozhi is currently chairman of China Study at Princeton University.
82-year-old Su was once the leading researcher in the field of China's political system reform. He was the former director of the Theory Department of the People's Daily and former director of the Marxism Institute of Academy of Social Science of China. All his posts were dismissed during the anti-liberalism movement in 1987. In the beginning of 1989, together with Fang Lizhi and other researchers, Su carried out the New Enlightenment Movement at Du Le Book Shop in Beijing. In April 1989, Yan Jiaqi, Su Shaozhi and Bao Zunxin jointly signed the open letter to the Shanghai Municipal government and strongly protested against the forceful shutdown of the World Economic Herald by Jiang Zemin, who was mayor of Shanghai during that period. Mr. Su was forced into exile after June of 1989 and currently lives in New Jersey.
The following is the interview with Mr. Su Shaozhi by The Epoch Times.
Reporter: What is your appraisal of Mr. Zhao Ziyang?
Su: I think Zhao Ziyang has made the greatest accomplishment among the former leaders of the CCP. He was a great leader with the most integrity. He is the one who initiated China's political and economic reform. Unfortunately, however, his political reform was put down by the conservative force of the CCP.
Reporter: Why hasnít Mr. Zhao been tolerated by the CCP? Why was he suppressed?
Su: Because the Communist Party is a despotic and dictatorial regime, which is geared on the systematical theory of Marxism-Leninism. This regime only believes in dictatorship. Therefore, it is impossible for it to accept any liberal opinion and policy, even the ones from party leaders.
Reporter: The death of Mr. Hu Yaobang resulted in the June 4th Incident in 1989. What kind of public and political impact will be created by Zhao's death?
Su: There are still senses of justice in the public. Many people mourn deeply for Zhao's death. It is said that there are tens of thousands of posted messages on different internet forums in Mainland China expressing the deep sorrow and grief about Zhao's death. Being very nervous, the CCP has blocked all the internet websites. This shows that the Chinese do not give up and continue to uphold justice and strive for democracy. Unfortunately, such righteous act has been suppressed by the CCP with violence, lies and high-handed terror.
Reporter: Is it possible for the CCP to restore Mr. Zhao's reputation and redress for June 4th Incident?
Su: Hu Jintao, current leader of the CCP recently spoke on the Fourth Plenary Session to crack down Falun Gong, pro-democracy activists and others who are in favor of liberalism. He also called on to learn from North Korea and Cuba and pointed out that North Korea's policy is consistently correct. It is impossible for him to listen to the public and redress the June 4th Incident.
Reporter: Is it possible for the CCP to find a way out?
Su: According to the current political situation, the CCP will soon become Fascist and the public will strongly dislike the communist regime. The fight against the CCP to achieve democracy in China will be hard and may take a long time. In the past, dictators such as Hitler and Stalin all stayed in power for a long time. However things will go in the opposite direction when they become extreme. The most important matter is to awake the public and let the people stand up against the autocratic and dictatorial regime.
Reporter: People who were dismissed by the CCP and people who quit the CCP are all persons with good conscience. Do you agree with this comment?
Su: Yes. I totally agree. I was expelled and no longer a CCP member. It happened before I could make a decision to quit the CCP.
Reporter: The nature of the Communist Party will not allow the existence of people with conscience and morality and justice, is it right?
Su: The nature of the Communist Party is dictatorship. It is reckless in order to maintain its power. It will not respect human rights, justice and universally acknowledged truth.
Reporter: You were once a member of the CCP. When did you begin to realize the nature of the CCP?
Su: I am a researcher specialized in the study of Communist theories and principles. I realized many serious problems on the CCP after the Cultural Revolution. We were hidden from the truths in the past. Even we did not know. At that time, there was a group of Communist party members including me, who advocated reassessing the Communist Party and correcting the wrongdoings in the past. We asked for open, liberal thought, and independent personality. Our thoughts were not catered to the authority so many of my friends were expelled by the CCP during the movement of anti-liberalism between 1986 and 1987. All my posts were repelled at that time. Later I was kicked out because of the June 4th Incident.
Reporter: Some people think, without the Communist Party, how will China become? What do you think about this?
Su: The driving force of the development for a nation, a country and a society is the people, not the Communist Party. China does not necessarily need the CCP. On the contrast, the CCP has brought the Chinese people huge disasters in the past and present, such as the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. Couldn't it be said that the CCP is evil?